More PR wonders from the profession

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 16:57:30 GMT

The prof con person would have been an employee, so not appropriate to give out private emails You can always contact elected Councillors by snail mail,or their practice email addresses in some cases-it's not that difficult

Wynne

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

J G Wray — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 15:40:35 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Jonathan That information , with respect to those members of Council who are veterinary surgeons was already available on the Register The information includes phone numbers, soyou can always ring tobend their ears[/quote]

More good news at RCVS

We are incorporating

Companies House gets sniffy about anyone setting up a Co with the word "vets" in the title. Permission is required from RCVS. I phoned RCVS. Reception knew who to put me through to. I got ProfCon. They got it immediately and agreed to email proforma letter from Mr Hockey. All in 24 hours - fantastic.

But, as with so many things at RCVS there's an anomaly. The ProfCon contact gave me her personal email address to send the request to and reply from in the format X@rcvs.org.uk. RCVS don't give out Councillors email addresses. Funny old world.

JGW

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 06 Dec 2011 11:43:32 GMT

Jonathan That information , with respect to those members of Council who are veterinary surgeons was already available on the Register The information includes phone numbers, soyou can always ring tobend their ears

Wynne

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

J G Wray — Mon, 05 Dec 2011 07:25:07 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]Continue to blow smoke if you wish, but just try them out, not to get an acknowledgement, but a detailed and thoughtful response.[/quote]

I have received a detailed and prompt response from RCVS. I requested contact details for RCVS COuncillors and received this email the next day

"..

Dear Mr Wray

Thank you for your emails to myself and Ian Holloway.

The Register addresses for the veterinary surgeon members of Council, and for the veterinary nurse member of Council (who is a Bristol University rep), can be found in the RCVS Register of Members and the RCVS List/Register of Veterinary Nurses respectively.

A list of the Council members, together with their biographies and declarations of interest, can be found here:

http://www.rcvs.org.uk/about-us/rcvs-council/council-members/

For your convenience, the Register addresses are attached.

I am afraid we are unable to give out contact details for lay members of Council without their permission. If you require contact details for lay members, I can seek their permission. Please let me know..."

I now have a file which collates all the contact details for RCVS Councillors , which I can provide should anyone want it. There are no email details, but if you want to get right to those in charge then here's the starting point.

JGW

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

Bob Russell — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 17:24:29 GMT

The people writing about vets being profiteering and rich are generally wrong. We make a living, not a fortune, few of us are rich but few of the posters are going to listen. Some replies are balanced but are swamped by the ignorant IMO.

Predictable? Probably, because I know how tough it is to run a business. Unhelpful? Probably, because it will not educate the clueless, they will not see my response and I doubt they would listen anyway.

I expect grumbles - everyone does. I work out my hourly rate, compare and expect to pay broadly the same for a comparable service. I agree that vets may be seen as not good value for money but I cannot change that unfortunately!

Unhelpful response? Why? It is my opinion.

I feel very let down by the RCVS, I have never found the BVA particularly helpful.

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

David Mills — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 17:03:37 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Sadly the ignorant vocal pr@ts have responded as usual. It is such a shame that the clueless respond when the sensible general public stay quiet! I suspect I work a heck of a lot longer hours than many of these people and probably for a lower hourly rate overall!

[/quote]

This is a predictable and unhelpful response. From you, Mr Russell. The fact that people are out there thinking these things - and obviously feel strong enough about it to write on what is a small part of the Guardian website - should NOT leave to some high-handed dismissal of them. You parody the general public if you think they are in agreement with you - plenty are not, but like most things, they pay, grumble a bit but see it as essential and generally come back - just as a lot of people do about mechanics, plumbers etc. In fact, I think most people probably don't think vets are good value for money, and even those in similar professions are some of the 'worst' clients - consultants, doctors, etc.

The entirely wrong response is probably, in mitigation, fuelled by the fact your MEMBER organisations (that you willing pay for) have chronically let you down. I couldn't help but chucke at Ms Burnell's response whereby the best example of BVA's activity to help the humble practitioner is vaccination wranglings a while ago. This insular, navel gazing is EXACTLY the problem. Yes, dangerous dogs, vaccinations, TB, pet passports are important in the long term, political side, but bloody hell what about everyday things, for your members?

And what, exactly, is wrong with asking the members directly? The regional reps are very well, but what actually happens at Council, Ms Burnell, is that the reps report from the forums - to which 4-5 respond - so that their 'region's view' is actually the view of 3/4 people. But that's OK. It ticks a box on the representative form, adds another layer to the BVA, and on the surface gives about 20 more voices at Council. Along with the Fish Society, of course, commenting on small animal issues.

I couldn't help thinking you were being deliberately provocative with your response. What exactly is in the pipeline? Certainly nothing on Council papers. Do, please, expand with specifics, and I'm talking about things that will affect the small animal practitioner every day in his/her practice, and may be make his/her job a little bit easier with his/her clients in these economic times.

On another note, who thought we'd be championing RCVS for sticking up robustly and effectively for vets? Funny old world.

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 15:27:57 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

No point in whinging because these brainless wonders will always consider vets to be rich and crooked. I do wonder if it is better to laugh these articles off and not bother responding. Our good clients will continue to respect what we do and how we do it (even if the don't like paying for it!) whilst the others are best sent to the local pile 'em up high, sell them cheap clinics where the client believes they are getting a bargain!

[/quote]

I love that "tarantella" comment: "Tories, maybe".

Well, that's that then. Still, this is the Guardian.

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

Bob Russell — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 11:03:38 GMT

[quote user="Ian Holloway"]

The column from Jerry Davies has now been posted on the Guardian website.

[/quote]

I was told that your GP practice is charged a minimum of £200 if you turn up at A+E so perhaps we are a real bargain!

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 10:47:03 GMT

Well said Jerry This is just the sort of robust defence of the vast majority of hard working honest caring veterinary surgeons we need-along with weeding out the very very few rotten apples

Wynne

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

Ian Holloway — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 10:27:38 GMT

The column from Jerry Davies has now been posted on the Guardian website.

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

J G Wray — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 19:37:42 GMT

Snappy response from Mr Holloway timed at 1551

Dear Mr Wray
 
Thank you for your emails via the RCVS website and to my colleague Lizzie Lockett.
 
We hope to address your query as soon as possible.
 
Yours sincerely
 
Ian Holloway MCIPR
Communications Manager

On va voir

JGW

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 18:45:10 GMT

Anthony - I think you're getting your acronyms confused

I said Lizzie and Ian (NB from the RCVS Press Office) should be applauded for their work with the Guardian. You begrudgingly said yes, but it was under pressure, citing Sally's long answer as evidence of the pressure they were under. But Sally is from the BVA press office, not the RCVS press office!

[quote user="Anthony Todd"] They admit that Google media and the other search mechanisms ie the cutting service etc. missed the Guardian, Sunday Telegraph and the SUN![/quote] Google does deliver news alerts covering all those papers. More likely it wasn't immediately clear that this was a story that a veterinary organisation could respond to.

Remember, it was primarily about pet owners defrauding insurance companies. The Sun headline was "Pet cash killings". That's not necessarily something which demands a response from BVA.

It was only later, I think with the publication of the Guardian article, that the story had more of a veterinary angle about it.

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]What was the purpose of the long reply from Sally Burrell if there was no pressure?[/quote]

A helpful explanation of what happened?

[quote user="Anthony Todd"] And I definitely don't agree with not responding because "It's usually not " worth it.[/quote]

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree then. But I would argue that my opinion in this, with 15 years experience dealing with the media, is perhaps better informed than yours. I don't mean any disrespect there. I think you'd find that I wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about if someone came and asked me the best way to neuter a cat

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

Ian Holloway — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 18:04:28 GMT

Clarification letter re yesterday's Daily Mail article now sent to DM Editor. Hopes not high for it being published, however.

Letter is also now available on our website and via our twitter feed (@RCVS_UK)

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

Anthony Todd — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 17:46:11 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]No, I don't think it did take any pressure.[/quote]

Crikey, it's another "Oh come on!".

They admit that Google media and the other search mechanisms ie the cutting service etc. missed the Guardian, Sunday Telegraph and the SUN!

What was the purpose of the long reply from Sally Burrell if there was no pressure?

Didn't the college respond before them? We're talking about the BVA, not the College aren't we?

And I definitely don't agree with not responding because "It's usually not " worth it.

If we don't respond then it must be true, which I certainly don't want.

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

J G Wray — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 15:25:02 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]That sounds a bit begrudging. Couldn't you just have said: "Well done"? [/quote]

Dear Mr G,

I've just sent the RCVS the following request through their website and by email to comms at RCVS

"Please may I have the contact details of all RCVS Councillors?"

The elected Councillors give out contact details when seeking election. These should be a matter of public and certainly well collated RCVS record. The non-elected are different, but they don't function in isolation from the world. This is a simple and reasonable request. Let's see how long they take to give it up.

JGW

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 11:43:49 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Well, this time, but it did take a bit of pressure didn't it?[/quote]

That sounds a bit begrudging. Couldn't you just have said: "Well done"?

No, I don't think it did take any pressure. Pressure from where? Here? This thread didn't start till the same Monday that the RCVS was preparing its response.

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]And it might pay them and us, who pay for the service, to consider a media search engine that isn't "in beta" and will surely pick up the Guardian, on the same day and every time, oh, and the Sunday Telegraph and the Sun.[/quote]

When software companies release a 'beta' version, it is generally the final version before official release, and will not differ markedly from the final release. There may just be minor bugs to be ironed out. And when a company like google puts out a beta release, you can be reasonably sure it is fit for purpose.

Still, your point is based on the presumption that it is worth responding to the media. It's usually not.

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

Anthony Todd — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 09:46:03 GMT

[quote user="Ian Holloway"]The Daily Mail has published a similar article today[/quote]

Well, yesterday now.

Yes, the vet bit as far as I can see is: [paraphrased in part]

"......vets are well place to inflate bills and pass on costs to insurance co.

...charging for the most expensive branded drug and then using a cheaper alternative...."

Of course they don't mention the cascade and our legal responsibility but give the impression that we ALL charge for the "expensive brand" and some even supply a cheap alternative, whereas we should, and can, supply and charge for the cheap brand .

Let's hope there is a vigorous response from those that can and should.

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

Anthony Todd — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 09:32:47 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Round of applause is due, I think...[/quote]

Well, this time, but it did take a bit of pressure didn't it?

And it might pay them and us, who pay for the service, to consider a media search engine that isn't "in beta" and will surely pick up the Guardian, on the same day and every time, oh, and the Sunday Telegraph and the Sun.

So that " BVA Media Team does'nt have to spend a huge amount of national, international, regional and trade press scanning" and the new search engine can take over.

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

J G Wray — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 07:33:37 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]But actually, this kind of thing is very, very rare. And in this case, down to the fact Ian and Lizzie are seriously good at their jobs. Honestly, they put out by far the best quality media materials in the veterinary profession, and this will certainly have been integral to the Guardian's decision. [/quote]

Just before the back slapping goes too far, I'd like to point out that the RCVS Comms department has no deal with those who pay for them. They have no charter, no commitment, no priority for communicating with retention fee payers as they see us at RCVS. A speedy response to chip wrapping is part of the media agenda, and takes their resouces away from those who pay for them when they seek information.

You try getting the same from them as a retention fee payer in the same timely manner. You try getting information with the considered detail and depth as the response to the tripe in the Guardian. The RCVS Comms department is ace at respnding to the chatterati, but not us.

Continue to blow smoke if you wish, but just try them out, not to get an acknowledgement, but a detailed and thoughtful response.

JGW

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:11:24 GMT

[quote user="Ian Holloway"]Against all the odds to which Arlo rightly alludes, the Guardian responded by inviting us to submit a longer column for publication in their 'Comment is free' section, rather than the letter. This has now been accepted and is scheduled for publication this coming Friday.[/quote]

I knew I'd end up with egg on my face here

But actually, this kind of thing is very, very rare. And in this case, down to the fact Ian and Lizzie are seriously good at their jobs. Honestly, they put out by far the best quality media materials in the veterinary profession, and this will certainly have been integral to the Guardian's decision.

Round of applause is due, I think...

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

Ian Holloway — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:12:21 GMT

For information, we also spotted the Saturday Guardian article on the Monday morning and submitted a letter to the Editor late Tuesday afternoon (which we posted on our website on Wednesday morning).

Against all the odds to which Arlo rightly alludes, the Guardian responded by inviting us to submit a longer column for publication in their 'Comment is free' section, rather than the letter. This has now been accepted and is scheduled for publication this coming Friday.

I will post a link to it once it's been published.

Ian

PS The Daily Mail has published a similar article today, although it actually seems more balanced than the Guardian's. Both we and the BVA are responding to that as well.

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 16:32:02 GMT

[quote user="Sally Burnell"]I'm not sure if this is some sort of vetsurgeon.org code for reading my thoughts! [/quote]

Nope, that's what happens if you cut and paste from a Word document into the forum without using the icon which looks like a clipboard with a W button, just above the text entry box when you post. It's just stray code from Microsoft Word.

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

Sally Burnell — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:15:42 GMT

[quote user="Sally Burnell"]

Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

[/quote]

I'm not sure if this is some sort of vetsurgeon.org code for reading my thoughts!

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

Sally Burnell — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:13:37 GMT

Phew! I don’t know – you take a day’s annual leave and miss out on all the discussions. A lot to respond to so I’ll try to be brief and succinct.

Thank you to David Mills for positive comments about the BVA’s services, especially the new(ish) legal services of mediation and representation. Not only are these welcomed and well used they also help to drive new pieces of work. By knowing and understanding the types of problems people are facing in the workplace we can generate new advice/guidance/services to help. The Member Services Group (MSG) receives reports from the legal services teams on these issues and MSG considers how to produce material that will reduce these problems in the future. Yes, the BVA commissions this work from an outside team but rather than being at “arms length” the BVA works very closely with the service providers. I’m sure you’ll agree that someone with a problem at work would want to speak to a qualified legal/HR expert and not just a member of staff at the BVA. Commissioning this work is the most cost-effective way to provide a good service.

Day to day help for members: David Mills mentions the journals, on which we get very positive feedback. But there are a whole host of other resources that members find useful, mainly because the ideas for them come from our members (a lot through MSG but also from individual input). More info available here and here and here and here.

CSR and pro bono work by vets: As David Mills knows from the discussion at BVA there is work being done in this area by MSG. And the Media Team is looking forward to working on the results of this work to generate some positive PR.

“All eyes to Westminster”: Yes, a lot of BVA’s policy and PR work is political; not just Westminster but also Cardiff Bay, Holyrood, Stormont, and Brussels. The BVA is the representative body for the profession and so we are asked for views on political matters. As a membership organisation we gather views from members to feed into our responses, as well as contacting specialist divisions to ask for their input. BVA policies and consultation responses are not the views of the President of the day or the relevant committee chair – they are pulled together from views expressed by our members, through emails to our policy team, comments on our community forum, through the specialist divisions and/or through the members of the committees (some of whom are on as reps and some of whom are on as independents) and Council (which David Mills will know about as a previous recent grad rep on BVA Council).

This is also the reason that the President is the person quoted in BVA press comments – he/she is not speaking as an individual but as the figurehead of the BVA and its 12,500 members. This is the norm for most organisations as it is the President (or similar) commenting on the organisation’s policy (in BVA’s case drawn from the members, including those who have particular experience or expertise).

The political work that BVA does is about showing vets in a positive light – as experts in animal health and welfare issues.

When MPs were being lobbied by the anti-vaccination groups they came to the BVA for a robust response and trustworthy answers to the questions being posed by their constituents. And they came to BVA because we hold parliamentary briefings and make ourselves known to politicians as a trusted source of information.

The political PR work is the same. On the SA side the fact that BVA speaks out on issues such as puppy farming/poor dog breeding and dangerous dogs shows vets as the champions of animal health and welfare.

Of course the political stuff shouldn't be the only work we do - and I agree with the various comments on that front - and we will certainly work on other ideas.

Finally, we’ve been unfairly criticised for saying we have no time to respond because we’re so busy doing proactive work. That’s not what my original response claimed. I merely made the point that every press officer will tell you they wished they could do more proactive work.

With that in mind, I must go and call back a TV producer who wants some information on stray dogs.

Thanks,Sally

PS if anyone wants further info on BVA media and public affairs work, please do contact me at BVAHQ.

Re: More PR wonders from the profession

David Mills — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 17:37:38 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

But perhaps they are using other methods / channels to achieve that.

[/quote]

They ain't.

There are services at BVA - through the member services' group - such as healthcare, legal advice line, arbitration service, insurance - which seem to be well used and welcomed - although note that these are very much arms' length from the organisation, and run by external organisations that BVA has negotiated preferetial/free rates from - although this one would suspect would be very easy given there are 8000 mostly financially solvent members.

Other things that are BVA run are done slowly, poorly, and indecisively. RSPCA MoU for one. Probono work for Defra the DNA ID of reactors. The TB contracting debacle. This is inevitable in an organisation that does not want for money, and is essentially run by amateurs in the field - another reaosn why vets shouldn't play politics, no matter what their egos tell them (this goes for RCVS as well - remember EFRAcom?).

As for helping out the humble practitioner day to day, well, apart form In Practice and VR it is essentially non-active - and these things don't impact in the consult room and the client relationship. Other organisations pick up the slack - PDSA on the welfare of pets survey for instance made headlines, and was a good starting point for discussions about pet obesity (piece of chocolate = hamburger) as well as being the first survey of its kind in the UK looking at habits and welfare of COMPANION species. The RSPCA similarly brings important issues to the fore.

For instance, a current thread could be CSR - and just how much pro bono work vets do. Many of us feel uncomfy (except Davies Sepcialists) trumpeting this. But how many members of the public know we treat wildlife for free, out of hours as well? That we pick up the slack on RSPCA emergencies/general treatment? That practices are involved in the PetAid schemes, Cats Protection neutering, Dogs Trust stuff? That these are done at/below cost price?

How's about this to blow apart the human/animal medicine comparisons? A comparison of cost prices of NHS procedures and vet procedures, and private practice costs versus veterinary by region? An analysis of the amount of time vets spend on clinical work compared to consultants? The amount an average person pays to the NHS per year compared to vet bills?

The lists are endless. But again, look at BVA activity. All eyes to Westminster and those oh-so-productive lunches.