Takes the biscuit...?!

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:34:02 GMT

I'm usually the one who sides with strict observation of all rules, but even I am pushed to see why this went so far.Even if he admitted feeding the biscuit,it's such a trivial offence that it's nowhere near "disgraceful professionalconduct " so outwith RCVS jurisdiction

Storm in a teacup (for everyone other than the unfortuneate veterinarian ) -and a biscuit with the cupof tea !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wynne

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Anthony Todd — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:31:24 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]the vet was found guilty by the GBGB, banned and fined.[/quote]

Sorry, didn't realise he was found guilty....

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Bob Russell — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:01:51 GMT

I have now seen the reference to the vet 'pushing' something under the bars. the vet was found guilty by the GBGB, banned and fined. What sort of defense he put up against this allegation seems totally missing from all of the reports. This must be one of the strangest cases in years! I would like to hear the case for the defense!

Would I pay £2000 to the greyhound racing authorities? Would I heck!

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Anthony Todd — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:37:33 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Utterly bizarre.[/quote]

Why did the RCVS get involved at all??

A vet was accused of an offence, not found guilty then retried by the RCVS.

On what grounds?

Not bringing the profession into disrepute?

Not being convicted of a criminal offence?

Being seen loitering at a greyhound track?

Mixing, and seen in conversation, with many convicted felons?

Although the last one isn't too far off....

And where's the motive anyway? Wouldn't the biscuit be fresh and unchewed??

My guess is that the trainer or kennelmaid was in a hurry, bundled the dog into the truck for transport, including one dried biscuit the dog hadn't had time to eat and the reverse happened at the track.

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

listhestar — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 22:02:37 GMT

[quote user="Anne Seawright"]Bob from the full report on the rcvs site it does seem that he was accused really of putting the biscuit in the kennel[/quote]

That is what I heard. Techincally no one should eat or drink in paddock area as if any drugs positives came up there is a risk the dog was then contaminated at the track and hard to prove a case. Worrying though, glad I make clinical notes at my track....

lisa

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 20:09:14 GMT

Thanks Anne. I've read the longer report, which seems still to have enormous gaps in it.

Utterly bizarre. No admissible evidence = no case to answer. Innocent until proved guilty, so not that nasty grudging "Not Proven" but "Not Guilty".

I'm also baffled as to the threat hanging over Mrs. Timmins. I suppose that since the GRA is a private self-appointed body it can make what strange rules it pleases, but how would Mrs. T. be supposed to prove that she did not place said biscuit? What on earth could be any conceivable motive for her to place said biscuit and then "discover" it? If she did lose her livelihood, how exactly would it be Dr. Samuel's fault?

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Eamon McAllister — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 18:18:59 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]He certainly had a heavy bourbon of responsibility.[/quote]

Oh well, I guess that's what comes from hob-nobbing with the wrong sort of people.

[/quote]

NICE one.

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

bob lehner — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 18:14:42 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]He certainly had a heavy bourbon of responsibility.[/quote]

Oh well, I guess that's what comes from hob-nobbing with the wrong sort of people.

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Niall Taylor — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:53:59 GMT

[quote user="MeeraM"]

Crumbs....[/quote]

He certainly had a heavy bourbon of responsibility.

Niall

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Tim Cheyne — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 14:55:10 GMT

[quote user="Anne Seawright"]Evelyn said he couldn't find the extra info. I am not sure if this link will be any better, maybe someone more technically minded can help if this doesn't work; http://www.rcvs.org.uk/document-library/samuel-gary-november-2011-findings/samuel-gary-jc-findings.pdf

[/quote]

Thanks, Anne. Your link certainly worked for me as a copy and paste job although I am not sure that I am much wiser. It is certainly a very odd affair and the Scottish-style 'Not proven' is probably an adequate answer given some rather iffy CCTV evidence.

Tim.

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Anne Seawright — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 11:42:02 GMT

Evelyn said he couldn't find the extra info. I am not sure if this link will be any better, maybe someone more technically minded can help if this doesn't work; http://www.rcvs.org.uk/document-library/samuel-gary-november-2011-findings/samuel-gary-jc-findings.pdf

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Anne Seawright — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 11:37:15 GMT

Bob from the full report on the rcvs site it does seem that he was accused really of putting the biscuit in the kennel. He apparently was seen on the CCTV kicking something along the floor with his foot towards the kennel and then reaching down and pushing something under the kennel door. The rcvs said the video wasn't of good enough quality to say this is what happened. Very very bizarre!

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Bob Russell — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 10:50:12 GMT

I am still trying to work out what the complaint actually was! Is it that a veterinary surgeon failed to prevent a biscuit entering a kennel. Is it his or her duty to prevent such events. I assume in addition the vet needs to march up and down outside the kennels, performing stop and search procedures on any one passing by!

The only explanation for this level of response would be if the vet is accused of introducing the biscuit. In this case (if proved) the response from the greyhound authorities might be appropriate!

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 10:39:39 GMT

In this instance I really think PI committee should have dismissed the complaint

Wynne

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

MeeraM — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 10:21:37 GMT

Crumbs....

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Martin Atkinson — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:51:45 GMT

Would it be appropriate to say this is a storm in a teacup?

All I can say is that Dr Samuel should be glad he no longer has to attend greyhound racing tracks. The day I left a practice where I had to attend a track twice a week was amongst the happiest of my life, no longer did I have to freeze my balls off in the middle of the winter in squalor, surrounded by dishonest scumbags who had no concern for the welfare of the animals they were exploiting other than whether it affected their income and at every opportunity tried to deceive me - a misplaced biscuit would have been the very least of my concerns.

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Niall Taylor — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 07:43:02 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Mr. Naughtiboy, you did on the 18th of November 2011 fail to observe that a hamster by the name of Spring-heeled Jack had a small patch of white fur on its belly and permitted it to enter the 20-foot relay while Rule 36 section 23 subsection a schedule ii specifically forbids a hamster with white markings from entering any race shorter than 21 feet except in a Leap Year. and the MMFHRA after consulting their tea leaves have decided you must be guilty.............[/quote]

Niall

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Niall Taylor — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 07:41:53 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]An accusation was made and the RCVS had to respond, what other choice was there[/quote]

Did it really need to go all the way to the Disciplinary Committee for a 3 day hearing?!!

Do we not have a PIC and other assessment/examination preliminary stages?[/quote]

Fair comment - going all the way to DC is a bit stupid I s'pose.

Niall

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 23:46:04 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]A preliminary assessment should have put this one to rest in a few minutes and at the cost of a Costa coffee and biscuits all round![/quote]

That may be where the best part of the 30 grand went!

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 22:04:24 GMT

[quote user="Ian Holloway"]

For reference, further information about this case (including the DC's findings and the press release) is available at www.rcvs.org.uk/disciplinary

Cheers

Ian

Ian Holloway
Communications Manager

[/quote]

I can't find any extra information there. So, on the basis of the facts we have been informed of:

Jeepers. No evidence. No case to answer. Tea and biscuits all round and let's go home.

Why does RCVS feel bound to enforce the Rules of Racing of the Greyhound Racing Association - sorry, the "GBGB" - a private self-appointed governing body? For that matter, why does it (i.e. we) get involved in the Rules of the Jockey Club? What other private organisations does it act on behalf of: the Much Meddling Fancy Hamster Racing Association perhaps? (Mr. Naughtiboy, you did on the 18th of November 2011 fail to observe that a hamster by the name of Spring-heeled Jack had a small patch of white fur on its belly and permitted it to enter the 20-foot relay while Rule 36 section 23 subsection a schedule ii specifically forbids a hamster with white markings from entering any race shorter than 21 feet except in a Leap Year. and the MMFHRA after consulting their tea leaves have decided you must be guilty.............)

The GBGB can withdraw Dr. Samuel's licence, since they issued it in the first place. I'm not sure they have the power to "fine" him although I suppose he had some contract with them which permits it. I know if I were he I would be inviting them to whistle for it.

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Ian Holloway — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 18:27:31 GMT

For reference, further information about this case (including the DC's findings and the press release) is available at www.rcvs.org.uk/disciplinary

Cheers

Ian

Ian Holloway
Communications Manager

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Bob Russell — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 18:11:27 GMT

Was the accusation that the vet provided the biscuit? If so there may be grounds for a complaint as it is possible that some forbidden substance was present within the aforesaid morsel! If not then it would appear we have become the biscuit Police and our practice will become a no-go area as Christmas biscuit deliveries start.

A preliminary assessment should have put this one to rest in a few minutes and at the cost of a Costa coffee and biscuits all round!

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Rob Loxley — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:56:39 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]An accusation was made and the RCVS had to respond, what other choice was there[/quote]

Did it really need to go all the way to the Disciplinary Committee for a 3 day hearing?!!

Do we not have a PIC and other assessment/examination preliminary stages?

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Niall Taylor — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:44:41 GMT

"Speaking on behalf of the Disciplinary Committee, Vice-Chairman Professor Sheila Crispin said: “The fact remains that the Committee cannot be sure that the Respondent caused the biscuit to enter Kennel 21, [so] finds the charge against the Respondent not proved.”

An accusation was made and the RCVS had to respond, what other choice was there - the GBGB sound like a bunch of idiots, holding a vet responsible for the presence of illicit bakery products.

Niall

Re: Takes the biscuit...?!

Joyce Whitehead — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:34:49 GMT

Good grief. What seems odd from reading that summary (on the link) is why the GBGB found the vet guilty in the first place? Does seem to be a storm in a teacup, but would have to feel very sorry for Dr Samuel, this must have been a huge strain on him.