Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Anthony Todd — Mon, 21 May 2012 23:47:54 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"] I am considering a buzzer entry system- has anyone got one of these? It seems extreme, and I'm not sure my clients will appreciate it, but I feel really vulnerable, and the police are not exactly[/quote]

These are mandatory IMHO. They are cheap to buy and install, work well and are not objected to by clients.

They:

1. Stop people creeping in, whilst everyone is preoccupied out the back, and nicking the till or just a load of Feliway or Advocate or worse.

2. Mean that a receptionist is there when the person enters.

[I've been in places where clients or customers are waiting patiently in the waiting room for someone, anyone!!, to appear. With an entry buzzer the client has to ring a bell to get entry; still get people waiting outside for the door to open on it's own.....

But the door release cannot stop people leaving without paying as it is a fire risk to have an effectively locked door and a fire raging near the release bell-push....

This is the best, simple, easy to wire and replace [they last about 5 years]

http://www.doorentryonline.co.uk/acatalog/Lock_release.html

You can use the same tranny as the door bell.

You can get really expensive ones where the release is in the door and not the jamb but they are a pain to fix or replace as well as the price.

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Mark Hedberg — Mon, 21 May 2012 20:35:42 GMT

Happy end! Good to hear! :)

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Niall Taylor — Mon, 21 May 2012 20:10:01 GMT

Good result, you must be greatly relieved. Just a pity the git was able to put you to a lot of trouble and grief in getting there.

Niall

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Julie Innes — Mon, 21 May 2012 19:54:48 GMT

Hello all- well, that seems a long time ago, so thought I'd update!

Arranged a locum (and a locum nurse- both paid for by the court) and dutifully trooped along to court in December. Sat for 2 hours before being dismissed due to inclement weather (it was too windy!)

Back to court last month (another locum, again paid for by the court), sat for 2 hrs, deferred again . Found out later from the proc. fiscal that he didn't show up because he had been arrested the night before, and noone knew he was in jail.

SO! Finally back to court again today, he didn't plead guilty () so we had to the whole take-the-stand thing, which wasn't very nice with his mates watching from the stands, but glad to get it over with. He was also up on the charge he was arrested for the night before our last trial date- he was arrested with 14 bags of heroin up his jacksy! He took the stand and made an idiot of himself. The Sherriff found him "completely unbelievable" and said that our version of events was obviously true. He got 8 months for his drugs charge. The Sherriff said he also took our case very seriously, as he appreciated how frightened and upset we were, and gave him another 6 months in jail for that! Result

I was very anxious about the court-case, and upset at how much disruption there has been to the business with all this, but I feel better now. as well as knowing he is out of circulation for a while, I feel that I have shown him he doesn't intimidate me (and had a little snide chuckle at his drug-dealing antics, as he was OUTRAGED when I alluded to his "next fix", yelling at me that he was "NO F'ING JUNKIE!" )

Really really did appreciate all your support at the time, especially Arlo with his lovely offer of a bodyguard . Hopefully that is it all finished now, but thank you all again.

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Julie Innes — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 01:38:13 GMT

Thank you all yet again! I guess I'll organise a locum (hopefully one of the vets I know might be able to do it)

I'm guessing he will plead guilty at the last minute (or not turn up), but I'm actually feeling better about the whole court thing now.

And, yes, I need to keep reminding myself just how scared and upset I was- annoyed to find myself almost feeling sorry for the idiot- what is that about??? The whole thing has left me very anxious- I'm not comfortable now leaving the surgery at lunchtime to walk my dogs, as my receptionist and nurse shouldn't have to be left to deal with this, so I've been getting my dad to come down each day (on the plus side, he is getting a lot of the odd-jobs done around the place!)

It's scary (and annoying) how one little toad can make you feel so vulnerable. Hopefully if he does get prosecuted it will deter other halfwits. Thanks again all.

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 16:46:10 GMT

I know you're appearing as a witness to fact,not an expert witness,but they're unlikely toargue with veterinary expert witness rates as reasonable recompense for loss of earnings-and as Bob said,Courts are'nt scary

Wynne

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Bob Russell — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 14:59:41 GMT

The Police are doing their job. Everyone is entitled to live their lives without this sort of abusive behaviour. He has endangered your well-being! It is very easy to reflect on things and minimise the impact, it is a safety device built into us all, it allows us to carry on functioning after traumatic episodes.

Do not forget his behaviour will look just as unacceptable to the Judge or Magistrate as it did to you on the day of the incident. A lot (if not all) of the scumbags that do this are cowards and will leave it to the last minute to plead guilty. Even in the last few days before the case is heard, expect a solicitors letter telling you he has changed his plea to guilty.

Courts are not the intimidating places they used to be and remember you are the victim and will get a lot more of a sympathetic hearing than the culprit.

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 14:40:15 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"] I'm also wondering WHY they have taken it so seriously- does this mean he is more dangerous than I was led to believe? [/quote]

Threatening and abusive behaviour is illegal. Last week this guy had you petrified. That is dangerous enough. You were certainly taking his threats very seriously when he made them - keep reminding yourself of that!

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Bob Russell — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 10:04:31 GMT

Be very careful not to use the term 'expert witness' ever! Unless you are one! Not relevant here, you are just another witness and entitled to reasonable expenses which the prosecuting solicitors will discuss with you in advance.

Off topic - the RSPCA are very keen to call any vet as an expert, most of us are not!

Good luck and court is where this man should be! He will almost certainly plead guilty a few days before the court date! They usually do to reduce the sentence!

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 09:55:10 GMT

You're entitled to reasonable expenses. The going rate when a veterinary surgeon attends as an expert witness is more than the locum rate. The Court will pay and TRY to reclaim after

You MUST attend,otherwise they will issue you witha subpoena-anyway if people complained then didn't attend the police would never have ANY convictions

I've done lots of RSPCA prosecution work,and Court really isn't scary-if his lawyer tries to bully you,yours will object and the magistrates will uphold the objection-it's only on television dramas that barristers are allowed to hector witnesses.Get the prosecution solicitor to ask for a restaining order-so if he enters the surgery again, or approaches you in any way,he willbe in contempt of Court-and that is a custodial offence-so you'llbe much safer afterwards-and when it's been reported in the localpaper the other low-lifes will know not to mess withyou

Wynne

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Bob Russell — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 09:16:53 GMT

As a witness you are entitled to claim reasonable expenses. As cases frequently do not run to time it would be expected that you would set the day aside.

Check with the Police as to whether the cost of cover is available. It should be. Ultimately the idea is that the losing party pays the costs. I suspect this low-life will not have the means or insurance to pay but this is between the prosecution and the courts.

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

plantagenet — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 08:57:51 GMT

I would get a locum just so you've got all your mental energy to cope with the stress of court and not half your mind worrying that an RTA has just come in at the practice. Surely a justifiable 'expense' since it is an obligation to provide cover?

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Julie Innes — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 01:02:13 GMT

Yeah, funnily enough I was at a firework party with a load of lawyers last night too! And I guess I have to attend (or prepare to attend) Just not sure whether I need a locum or, as Evelyn says, can get away with someone just answering the phones.

I guess I should speak to someone and see just what I should do. The practice is a 10-15 min walk from the court, and previously when I was talking to the SSPCA about another case I might be asked to attend (another great client!) they said sometimes you can be on stand-by?? Will check it out tomorrow. I know I should be pleased that the police are taking it seriously, but I feel more anxious than ever, tbh. Really don't want to see him again, nervous about the court bit, worried about repercussions... I'm also wondering WHY they have taken it so seriously- does this mean he is more dangerous than I was led to believe? Or that he has said something after they arrested him that made them think it was serious? Also, what will it achieve? He will probably be fined, at worst (which he won't be able to/ have to pay) and then he'll be even more hacked off with me

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 06 Nov 2011 23:41:44 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]Just got a citation this morning to appear in court as a witness against him- I wasn't expecting that, and am a bit perturbed My nurse got one too. As a single-vet practice do you think I am likely to be excused? Really don't want to pay out for a locum because of this eejit![/quote]

Not sure how much, but you can claim expenses for lost earnings, paying someone to cover you etc. When they say that a person was fined £300 plus costs they are the costs the witnesses claim.

I was organising a bonfire with a barrister last night!

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Mark Holmes — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 22:04:41 GMT

Don't get a locum. It is highly likely the locum will cost YOU more than HE will be fined and THAT will really piss you off.

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Stephen Courtney — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 21:06:58 GMT

This is the other side of the citizenship coin. You will get enough notice to make arrangements for your practice, but you have no option but to attend court. this isn't like jury service, you have been summoned to give evidence, on a complaint you made. Go there and give your evidence and get the low-life nailed. It's your duty.

As far as wondering about his appointment with the PDSA, ask the SSPCA to investigate.

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 20:41:30 GMT

[quote user="Gerry Henry"]Good for the Police, at last they're taking this kind of thing seriously, and if they are, so must you. Chances are that if he pleads guilty you won't have to appear, if he doesn't then one of you must attend (it should be you as the owner/proprietor). Please don't sound as half hearted to them as your post above sounds to me otherwise next time they might just let you stew.[/quote]

As Gerry says, you may eventually not need to appear, but definitely prepare to go to court. If you get your chance in the witness box, lay it on thick about how terrified you were,etc, and your nurse can do the same .

You shouldn't need to hire a locum, surely? Get someone in to answer the phones, and ask your neighbour practice to cover any emergencies.

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Gerry Henry — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 18:43:46 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]

Thanks for making me smile, guys

Just got a citation this morning to appear in court as a witness against him- I wasn't expecting that, and am a bit perturbed My nurse got one too. As a single-vet practice do you think I am likely to be excused? Really don't want to pay out for a locum because of this eejit! Or do you think I am better to go, as he will no doubt tell lots of lies about me!

I'm really surprised that it has gone to court and moved so fast- I just wanted him removed!! Any ideas why they have decided to prosecute (noone ever asked me if I wanted to or not)? Wondering if it means he is still locked up (in which case he will have missed his PDSA appt (yesterday), wonder what the poor dog's foot will be like now)

[/quote]

Good for the Police, at last they're taking this kind of thing seriously, and if they are, so must you. Chances are that if he pleads guilty you won't have to appear, if he doesn't then one of you must attend (it should be you as the owner/proprietor). Please don't sound as half hearted to them as your post above sounds to me otherwise next time they might just let you stew.

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Gerry Henry — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 18:38:12 GMT

[quote user="Tanya Fielding"]

there are loads of notices in doctors and hospitals saying zero tolerance of abuse so why should you take it. Point out to the plod that there are drugs in the building and if that doesnt work you could always sedate him and then any surgery would be a help to society!

[/quote]

Zero Tolerance notices usually denote crap services delivered by uninterested parties working in Public Services, God forbide we ever descend to their level.

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Julie Innes — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 14:51:14 GMT

Thanks for making me smile, guys

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Tanya Fielding — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 13:58:51 GMT

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 23:15:15 GMT

Joyce, you rule. :)

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Joyce Whitehead — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 22:13:42 GMT

And another one - we have this on the office fridge to keep our spirits up in the face of certain clients.....

Hope that works!

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 14:24:06 GMT

Thought this might help you see the lighter side of the situation:

Re: Shaken and upset by abusive client- any advice?

Julie Innes — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 23:28:05 GMT

[quote user="Helen Wallace"]

Hugs and sympathy to you Julie, its a horrible thing to happen.

I lucked out with my last nasty abusive client. He picked a fight in the waitng room just as my next appointment arrived.... the local prison warden with his GSD, one word to the dog caused the client to leave and never darken our door again... no blood shed just a very threatining growl and a very grateful vet

[/quote]

Fab, Helen! Wish I had had one of those type of clients on hand. All we had present was our slightly pyschotic and temperamental surgery cat, who we often warn clients not to get too close to. Did he leap out hissing to our defence, all tooth and claw? did he hell! He slept peacefully under the reception desk through the whole episode. Traitor. But had a good old swipe at me this morning for daring to be 5 mins late with his breakfast...