Eurocrat

Re: Eurocrat

Thomas Johnson — Thu, 03 Nov 2011 11:45:42 GMT

[quote user="plantagenet"]

Trading with europe may have some advantages in which case we could keep doing it from outside the eu like Norway and Switzerland and the rest of the world.

[/quote]

I was talking to someone from Norway recently who was complaining that to trade with countries in the EU thay have to abide by EU rules without their government having any means to influence those rules.

Re: Eurocrat

plantagenet — Thu, 03 Nov 2011 09:26:14 GMT

Very good summary on Today (Radio 4) by an American economist saying that the euro (tried all the above - can't find it on the keyboard) is stuffed without fiscal union. Fiscal union means united states of europe. Sarkosy and Merkel told the Greeks straight - your economy is less important than keeping the euro afloat.

We live in interesting times, but at least there is the start of honesty and clarity about what the european project entails.

Re: Eurocrat

Tim Cheyne — Thu, 03 Nov 2011 04:31:27 GMT

On my personal Dell PC (with international QWERTY keyboard and W7 HP) the euro sign is Alt+CTRL+5 (but 5 in the top row of the keyboard, not the number pad). In Office 2007 it can also be found easily in 'Symbols'. My office PC keyboard is such a jumble of alternatives that I am not sure where the euro is. I must experiment.

Tim.

Re: Eurocrat

Bob Russell — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 17:57:14 GMT

Sorry we could only afford Dell's!

Re: Eurocrat

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 17:49:33 GMT

[quote user="Tim Mainland"][quote user="Bob Russell"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]sorry don't know where the Euro key is[/quote]

But maybe the Greeks do.............. .

[/quote]

Seriously does anyone know where the Euro key is? Funny how UK keyboards don't have one! It does have a $ though! Is the keyboard industry trying to tell us something?

Ignore this comment - our new keyboards do have one! Alt+Ctrl 4. I was using an old keyboard!

[/quote] € - Blackberries rule!

[/quote]

€ is alt2 on the good kind of computer.

Re: Eurocrat

Tim Mainland — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 17:37:26 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]sorry don't know where the Euro key is[/quote]

But maybe the Greeks do.............. .

[/quote]

Seriously does anyone know where the Euro key is? Funny how UK keyboards don't have one! It does have a $ though! Is the keyboard industry trying to tell us something?

Ignore this comment - our new keyboards do have one! Alt+Ctrl 4. I was using an old keyboard!

[/quote] € - Blackberries rule!

Re: Eurocrat

Bob Russell — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 17:23:31 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]sorry don't know where the Euro key is[/quote]

But maybe the Greeks do.............. .

[/quote]

Seriously does anyone know where the Euro key is? Funny how UK keyboards don't have one! It does have a $ though! Is the keyboard industry trying to tell us something?

Ignore this comment - our new keyboards do have one! Alt+Ctrl 4. I was using an old keyboard!

Re: Eurocrat

Gerry Henry — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 17:06:54 GMT

The UK is Daimler-Benz's best export market next to America, Peugot's best bar none, ditto Citroen, ditto the french wine industry particularly Champagne, ditto Miele, ditto Bosch, ditto Velux - the list is endless; the UK economy is huge and we spend a lot of it on imports; do you seriously think European industry is going to close its doors to its best and nearest market because we want to go our own way? The eurocrats would probably try, they'll certainly try to scare us with it but the real power is still in the boardrooms of the GmBs and they know which side their bread is buttered. Anyway, the debate is academic, Euro hubris, corruption, stupidity (60k Eu for a railway employee FFS) has finally brought the whole house of cards tumbling down (watch the Greeks throw out Papandreou's proposals - ha ha, love to see Merkel's face when that happens) and that'll be it. We started with a customs union and ended up with a virtual dictatorship.

BTW, I had two clients (husband and wife) who were also high flying Eurocrats; obsessive, disconnected, weird little endomorphs both of them, figures really.

Re: Eurocrat

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 16:48:13 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]sorry don't know where the Euro key is[/quote]

But maybe the Greeks do.............. .

Re: Eurocrat

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 16:37:52 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"] nor do we have Commonwealth as a subordinate trading entity[/quote]

Because........ the Common Market bods said we had to dump it.

Re: Eurocrat

Bob Russell — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 15:34:25 GMT

I think floating around on the outskirts is probably the safer thing to do at the moment.

I was amused to hear that Greek railways cost four times as much to run as they get in fares. The average salary (according to the Today programme) for railway staff is E60K (sorry don't know where the Euro key is). Not bad and not surprising that with this level of government the country is to all intents and purposes bankrupt!

Re: Eurocrat

Tim Mainland — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 15:28:00 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="Tim Mainland"]We are an island nation and can trade effectively with diverse partners. Time to think that way again.[/quote]

What, gently be it said, does being an island confer to our advantage? We no longer "rule the waves", nor do we have Commonwealth as a subordinate trading entity. I'm also pretty sure we trade with just about anyone including Qaddafi and Saddam, neither of whom had much debt.

Trading with Europe has some transport cost advantages, n'est-ce pas? Handy is good.

JGW

Island nation is not about "Rule Britannia" - absolutely agree. But it's a geographic fact. We are not in the centre of anywhere so we gotta do what we gotta do. Europe definitely has transport advantages- when the trading is good. But when it ain't we have to go further, and the advantage of being in a "global economy" should be grabbed when it's opportune. As I said, I'm not for losing Europe, but balancing the playing field so we can trade with whoever- and on good terms.

I just don't believe that the world can sustain economic growth on an ongoing basis. So there will be more losers than winners. I'd rather live in one of the countries that performs above the bar. It'll not be easy, but tying us up in Euro-regs has had its day.

[/quote]

Re: Eurocrat

plantagenet — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 15:27:35 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]What, gently be it said, does being an island confer to our advantage? [/quote]

Because we can trade with anywhere else in the world (almost) without crossing another country and needing to meet their import/export/tax requirements and exploit the historical links with many other parts of the worl.

Trading with europe may have some advantages in which case we could keep doing it from outside the eu like Norway and Switzerland and the rest of the world.

Re: Eurocrat

J G Wray — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 15:17:29 GMT

[quote user="Tim Mainland"]We are an island nation and can trade effectively with diverse partners. Time to think that way again.[/quote]

Trading with Europe has some transport cost advantages, n'est-ce pas? Handy is good.

JGW

Re: Eurocrat

Tim Mainland — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 15:10:39 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"] It is ridiculous to assume that the UK could or should enjoy the trade benefits without a deeper commitment to Europe.[/quote]

It is said that 50% of our trade is with Europe, thus we must be "in there". That also means that 50% is not within Europe, and Europe happens to be riddled with debt. Why make so much out of trading with debt ridden countries when we have as much business in the rest of the world? I'm not for leaving Europe - Britain PLC needs all the trade it can get. But that's the point - all it can get, and not just focussing on the needs of the worst 50%, simply becuase it's handy, noisy and familiar. Which takes us to trading on a level playing field with the better 50% - and freeing our country of all the restrictive practices which being at the centre of the EU demands.The bigger trading world out there is for the taking - but on its own terms, not Europe's.

We are an island nation and can trade effectively with diverse partners. Time to think that way again.

Re: Eurocrat

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 13:07:41 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="Gerry Henry"]Not a subsidy.[/quote]

Lend-Lease?

[/quote]

O come on. They rented us a collection of warships (mostly clapped-out), aircraft and equipment. Yes, it was generous, because they didn't have to, and at the time this stuff was just what we needed. It saved our lives, but what's the connection with subsidies?

We went on paying the US back for decades for all they had provided us with 1939-45. When was the final instalment paid – 2005 was it? Not long ago, anyway.

Re: Eurocrat

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 12:54:43 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]It's our money in the first place. We pay enormous quantities of money to the "EC" and they give some of it back with strings on and telling us what to do with it (often to use it on bad ideas).[/quote]

This is public money. It represents as fraction of the trade benefits, the non-Governmental income which is consequent upon EU membership. Governments, particularly ours have for centuries used political clout whether it be through force, diplomacy or public money to improve trade. It is ridiculous to assume that the UK could or should enjoy the trade benefits without a deeper commitment to Europe.

Parochialism is bad. It would be particularly bad for small communities which rely on their local economy being bolstered by a non-parochial institution, employer, source of diversity. How could Bangor function without its University? I see scale and parallel here with the UK also on the NW and otherwise separated by a cultural and language barrier.

JGW

[/quote]

"Public money" = our money.

[quote user="J G Wray"] It is ridiculous to assume that the UK could or should enjoy the trade benefits without a deeper commitment to Europe.[/quote]

No it isn't. You get trade benefits through a free trade association, customs union, call it what you like. There's no need for a political union or surrender of sovereignty.

I love this politician's phrase "a deeper commitment to Europe". Weasel words. It could mean absolutely anything. Does it mean accepting that the non-elected people who run the "EC" can tell a country who it may or may not elect as head of state? That's what they tried to do with Austria. (Interesting thought.... would they have tried the same with Eire, if that country had elected IRA terrorist McGuinness as president?).

If "deeper commitment to Europe" means this country paying 14 billion pounds a year to the un-elected and un-accountable "EC" , and the "EC" giving us back 7.5 billion of it as long as we do precisely what they tell us to do with it, while 6.5 billion is divided between the excessive running costs of the organisation, projects that are of no interest to us in other countries and the black hole of corruption, then you may label objection as parochialism if you wish but I still object.

Re: Eurocrat

J G Wray — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 07:31:07 GMT

JGW

Re: Eurocrat

J G Wray — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 07:16:53 GMT

[quote user="Gerry Henry"]Not a subsidy.[/quote]

Lend-Lease?

Re: Eurocrat

plantagenet — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 14:18:38 GMT

Good for the Greek government - now can we have our referendum?

Re: Eurocrat

Bob Russell — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 13:51:23 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]I am still waiting for a reply from our MEP regarding cascade (that must be at least 18 months waiting)![/quote]

Ah, that. I can tell you what the answer would be: "That's UK law, you should take it up with your MP". If you bothered to do so, your MP's reply would be "It was required by a EC Directive, you should take it up with your MEP".

[/quote]

I did copy it to my MP. He wrote back within days to tell me he had contacted the MEP and would get back to me when he received a reply!!

Re: Eurocrat

Rob Davis — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 11:59:06 GMT

[quote user="plantagenet"]I find a wallpaper stripper (steam) the best way to pluck waterfowl - needs a little practice to get the right amount of steaming to loosen the feathers and not to damage the skin.[/quote]

That's a good tip. I have 10 muscovy ducklings which are about ready to kill and I've been dreading the plucking - I'll try getting out the wallpaper stripper!

Re: Eurocrat

Gerry Henry — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 16:25:37 GMT

[quote user="plantagenet"]

Regionalisation of course is part of the master plan - small countries with no teeth, but who think they have a greater identity with independence.

Conspiracy theorist? Me - well yes, I am beginning to see a plan unfold and I don't like it. More to the point, I feel powerless to voice my dislike.

[/quote]

No need, its going to disappear up its own fundament next year or the year after; shame really, all that selflessness and all.

Re: Eurocrat

plantagenet — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 16:12:12 GMT

Regionalisation of course is part of the master plan - small countries with no teeth, but who think they have a greater identity with independence.

Conspiracy theorist? Me - well yes, I am beginning to see a plan unfold and I don't like it. More to the point, I feel powerless to voice my dislike.

Re: Eurocrat

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 15:47:44 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]I am still waiting for a reply from our MEP regarding cascade (that must be at least 18 months waiting)![/quote]