RCVS to cease being an awarding body

Re: RCVS to cease being an awarding body

J G Wray — Thu, 13 Oct 2011 14:05:44 GMT

[quote user="Jill Nute"]I understand that financial details regarding staffing/workload etc have yet to be detailed, & will depend on the length of any changeover period, which will also need to take into account the number of students still to complete on the existing system. [/quote] I think it would be decent, reasonable and honest to make these assessments ASAP. That way redundancies at RCVS can be planned. Have you ever had to do these? I have.

JGW

Re: RCVS to cease being an awarding body

karen jones — Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:47:15 GMT

Shows how things vary across country, we just filled a tick box form in and attended some meetings at Harper Adams and there we were clinical coaches!!

As we deal with 3 VNAC's or whatever the latest name is, there is a big difference in how the 3 places look at how the NPL has been completed. One did tell me it was because some were degree students and some further education, though the RVN qualification was same for each!!

Karen

Re: RCVS to cease being an awarding body

Niall Taylor — Thu, 13 Oct 2011 11:27:16 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Thanks Niall I would never have worked out Objectively Structured etc , and if you hadn't said practicals still wouldn't be any the wiser.Talkabout bureaucratic gobble-de-gook !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh for the simple days of pracs and green books

Wynne[/quote]

Yup, and it's funny how nurses who qualified then seemed just as capable of doing the job as nurses qualifying today

Niall

Re: RCVS to cease being an awarding body

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:51:17 GMT

Wynne

Re: RCVS to cease being an awarding body

Jill Nute — Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:28:06 GMT

I understand that financial details regarding staffing/workload etc have yet to be detailed, & will depend on the length of any changeover period, which will also need to take into account the number of students still to complete on the existing system.

Re: RCVS to cease being an awarding body

J G Wray — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 22:52:50 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]There will presumably be some cost savings at RCVS, redundancies etc. Can someone ask Mrs Nute if overspends will be recouped?[/quote]

I have to apologise. I was slow off the mark. Apparently, "elsewhere" other RCVS Councillors have remembered that the justification for the swelling of VN Department ranks at RCVS was to support their work as an Awarding Body. If this stops these jobs essentially evaporate. Can someone ask Col Smith or Mrs Nute what the cost savings will be in financial and human terms?

JGW

Re: RCVS to cease being an awarding body

Bob Russell — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 19:15:47 GMT

We have a first rate 'veterinary nursing assistant' who is interested in training as a VN. We were dreading having to attempt to become a training centre but as the can't organise a something in a brewery still seems to be the guiding principle perhaps the RCVS really ought to bow out in all ways!

Re: RCVS to cease being an awarding body

J G Wray — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 19:09:55 GMT

There will presumably be some cost savings at RCVS, redundancies etc. Can someone ask Mrs Nute if overspends will be recouped?

JGW

Re: RCVS to cease being an awarding body

Niall Taylor — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 19:08:10 GMT

[quote user="karen jones"]

Fed up with all changes especially the rapid change from NVQ to Diploma. The poor students in the change over year have had it hard as the colleges hadn't much idea what they were doing.

Since the 90's I've been as assessor, an internal verifier and now a clinical coach but as a boss I'm not allowed to see how my students and clinical coaches are doing with their NPL even if I'm paying the bills unless they use their passwords to let me look.

Nursing care plans which no one uses but feature in NPL , Nurses who become disillusioned about what they do and are told they can do by their colleges but it isn't necessarily what practices want.[/quote]

Karen, you're playing my tune!!!

I've been training nurses for about 25 years, I've been an assessor since the NVQ started and trained about a dozen or so nurses successfully since then, but once the scheme changed I wasn't allowed to sign off to say a trainee was "competent" to so much as clean a kennel until I'd had my 3 hours clinical coach "training" - it makes you mad. And the proponents of clinical coaching want us to be doing more of it - aaaaargh!

Niall

Re: RCVS to cease being an awarding body

karen jones — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 19:00:48 GMT

Fed up with all changes especially the rapid change from NVQ to Diploma. The poor students in the change over year have had it hard as the colleges hadn't much idea what they were doing.

Nursing care plans which no one uses but feature in NPL , Nurses who become disillusioned about what they do and are told they can do by their colleges but it isn't necessarily what practices want.

Re: RCVS to cease being an awarding body

Niall Taylor — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 17:50:38 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Jill I'm sure I'm not the only one who hasn't a clue what OSCE and NPL mean-even if I'm the only one not too embarrassed to ask

Wynne[/quote]

Objectively Structured Clinical Examinations (that's 'practicals' to you and me) and Nursing Progress Log - the web based log of tasks the trainee has completed and had signed off (that's 'the green book' to you and me - oooooh, cynical, slaps wrist ).

Cheers,

Niall

Re: RCVS to cease being an awarding body

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 16:19:24 GMT

Jill I'm sure I'm not the only one who hasn't a clue what OSCE and NPL mean-even if I'm the only one not too embarrassed to ask

Wynne

Re: RCVS to cease being an awarding body

Jill Nute — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 16:06:57 GMT

Hi Niall, I will try! I understand that a Q& A , or FAQs, section is in the process of being approved to go on the RCVS website which should help , & that can be updated if other queries arise. I don't think there is any proposal to change the situation regarding clinical coaching, occupational standards, NPL etc, & alot of the detail will be left until after the Council decision. Student nurses will still have to enroll with RCVS in order to comply with Sch 3 & VSA, & those on fully approved courses will be unaffected as they do not come under the Awarding Body as their own system has been evaluated and approved. I appreciate there are commercial sensitivities at this point in time, but would expect more information to be forthcoming as things develop. Cheers, Jill

Re: RCVS to cease being an awarding body

Niall Taylor — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 15:15:54 GMT

It seems strange to me although I'm inclined to agree it will be a good thing - as long as it's not an "out of the frying pan into the fire" type move.

From what little I could gather from leaks and hints which were gleaned from RCVS meetings regarding nurse training the various committees didn't appear to handle the decision making well, apparently being railroaded into making premature changes and ending up with a halfway house which satisfied no one (or very few). There are still serious problems in my view with the current system, I'm thinking more here of the training provision in practice really, particularly with the peculiar fixation on "clinical coaching".

Can you say why the RCVS hasn't been more open about this from the get go Jill? Even the email you kindly posted suggests the only reason we are being told now is because RCVS were worried that the press would get there first. Also, do you know whether the commitment to "clinical coaching" will continue - IMHO this is one of the most serious problems with the new award as it has come down from the RCVS.

I expect it's too early for details like that but thank you anyway for letting us know what is going on. I would be very grateful if you could keep us posted, or let us know where to go to keep up to date with the changes.

Cheers,

Niall

Re: RCVS to cease being an awarding body

Jill Nute — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 12:13:21 GMT

Hi Niall, I think we probably posted simultaneously, IMO this removes the conflict of interest that arises with RCVS both setting & examining on nursing standards. There will still have to be some safeguarding function on educational standards & a route for overseas nurses to access the nurse register, but it should reduce enrolment costs, & the very much larger likely successor/s can achieve economies of scale on examination costs. Theory & Practical OSCE type examinations will appear to be retained, & criteria are in the process of being developed to assist other organisations with their applications. There should be a reduction in size of the VN dept. but this will have to be costed obvoiusly if there are any redundancies. RCVS VN dept will continue to act in some sort of regulatory way on ensuring educational standards much as RCVS does for VS education & not all VN training is via the awarding body route. So.. it could be an exciting new development, put awarding body functions out to those organisations better equipped to handle them, reduce costs, & free up some space in Belgravia House. I think we need to know more about the number of students this will affect, as presumably those qualifying by the fully approved degree type course etc will be unaffected, & how key for those of us who are TPs how will TPs be selected/standards of centres/TPs assured & costs of being a TP if we are outwith RCVS. Cheers, Jill

Re: RCVS to cease being an awarding body

Jill Nute — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 12:04:49 GMT

For information I am copying the email sent out to RCVS Council members yesterday by Liz Branscome, the Chairman of VN Council.

"I would like to inform you that at our meeting yesterday a decision was made by VN Council to recommend to RCVS Council that the RCVS ceases its awarding function. I felt it was politic to make an announcement yesterday regarding our decision rather than risk inaccurate reports and speculation being leaked by the visitors and members of the press that attended our meeting. This paper will come to RCVS Council on 3^rd November for your consideration.I would like to inform you that at our meeting yesterday a decision was made by VN Council to recommend to RCVS Council that the RCVS ceases its awarding function. I felt it was politic to make an announcement yesterday regarding our decision rather than risk inaccurate reports and speculation being leaked by the visitors and members of the press that attended our meeting. This paper will come to RCVS Council on 3^rd November for your consideration."

This was supported unanimously by VN Council

Other organisations are interested in taking over the awarding body function, & care will be taken to ensure that those remaining NVQ students as well as those enrolled on the RCVS current scheme can complete their training.

I have asked that further details on the likely impact on training practices are made available in due course, depending on the outcome of RCVS Council the time scale will probably be in the region of 1-2 years for any changeover.

Jill