PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Mike Martin — Thu, 02 Feb 2012 14:25:11 GMT

[quote user="Craig Reilly"]instead I would phone direct and speak to a senior PP person - probably Howard Brown [/quote]

just an update on this issue. As well as Craig's advice, I bumped into a colleague at BVA Congress last October, who said Howard Brown had given his card to give to me. I phoned Howard, who understood the situtation, said he sort it.

We heard nothing more. Its now a few months ago and PetPlan have stopped chasing us, so the problem has been resolved.

Thanks PetPlan and Howard Brown.

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

svn — Wed, 28 Sep 2011 23:48:39 GMT

I must admit to not reading the whole thread.

Currently we have no extra charge for direct claims, but they MUST be authorised by a partner. All Insurance claims have a £4.99 charge however.

One referral practice I worked in, 10 years ago, if not more, charged £21.50 at the time for a direct claim, nothing for a standard claim, if of course the client paid up front.

We photocopy all claim forms - very easy with this new fangled technology - you can even do a double sided photocopy - brill!

It has saved our skins, and significant amounts of money, and in some cases more importantly, time, when we have been able to produce the photocopies during any ermm discussions with insurance companies!

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Andrew Henfrey — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 22:30:02 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Do ezVetPro charge any additional fees?[/quote]

Not that I remember. I asked them if they did it, and they updated the system, and sorted out the access codes. It just costs for VetEnvoy, and they do a free trial (or certainly used to).

The only minor problem is once on the insurance claim screen you can't go back and check the record without losing the claim, so you do need to have the information needed before you start, eg claim start date, end date, etc.

Andrew

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Bob Russell — Mon, 26 Sep 2011 15:20:22 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Henfrey"]

Your PMS needs to be enabled for VetEnvoy. Check this link to see if your PMS does eClaims:

http://www.vetenvoy.com/uk/Content/Partners.aspx

I use ezVetPro and the system is fairly easy to use

Andrew

[/quote]

Do ezVetPro charge any additional fees?

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Rob Loxley — Mon, 26 Sep 2011 13:45:45 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Is VetEnvoy worth it?[/quote]

IMHO, yes, the 50p (or so) cost for submitting e-claims is well worth the reduction in time taken, paperwork to file and store, and the increased speed in settling claims for us and the client. We haven't yet set up lab connectivity or microchip form submission.

We don't charge for filling out insurance claims: yes it takes time (much less for Eclaims) but it's factored in and the overall benefit for the practice of having insured clients is worth the time taken.
We will do direct claims in certain circumstances - surely one reason to have pet insurance is that you may not be able to stump up a huge bill at moment's notice - as long as the excess is paid, the forms given, and it is made clear that any shortfall (espescially policies with % excesses, food etc.)/non-payment is the client's responsibility to settle with us.
Charging people for filling in claim forms, a cost which can't be reclaimed on most policies, seems to be against our drive to get people insured part of which is making the claims handling as simple and easy as possible.

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Bob Russell — Mon, 26 Sep 2011 12:42:07 GMT

Is VetEnvoy worth it? I can see a big advantage once the erecords transfer is up and running. I know £12.50 is not much!!

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Thomas Johnson — Mon, 26 Sep 2011 12:21:26 GMT

[quote user="Mike Martin"]

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]For a small administration charge we will do direct claims for any client,[/quote]

Can I ask what charge for this? We don't charge an admin fee. Does anyone else charge and admin fee and happy say what that is?

[/quote]

The charge is about £10, which of course can't be claimed for. We will do direct claims with all insurers except E&L.

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Amanda Nicholls — Sat, 24 Sep 2011 12:38:43 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="amanda nicholls"]

no charge for filling out claim forms unless they are direct claims in which case I charge a £30 (inc VAT) admin charge,

[/quote]

May I ask who you charge - presumably the client not the insurance company?

[/quote]

we charge the client and hopefully it puts people off doing a direct claim if they can afford to pay us and claim the money back themselves.

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Andrew Henfrey — Sat, 24 Sep 2011 00:09:45 GMT

Your PMS needs to be enabled for VetEnvoy. Check this link to see if your PMS does eClaims:

http://www.vetenvoy.com/uk/Content/Partners.aspx

I use ezVetPro and the system is fairly easy to use

Andrew

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Martin Whitehead — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 20:48:34 GMT

Our admin fee for a direct-to-us payment claim is £15. In our minds this small fee is not to pay for the admin per se, but an attempt to gently encourage those people who could afford to pay us themselves at the time of treatment to do so and then claim the money back themselves rather than asking us to do a direct claim. We never turn down a direct claim, and if we know an insured client who genuinely doesn't have the money to pay a big unexpected bill we wouldn't charge them the £15 for a direct payment....

Like so many above, we too have had insurers pay the owner instead of us, found the insurance company refuses to pay us and then had to chase the owner through debt collectors etc....

Martin.

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Claire Fisher — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 20:15:54 GMT

[quote user="Mike Martin"]

Can I ask what charge for this? We don't charge an admin fee. Does anyone else charge and admin fee and happy say what that is?

[/quote]

We charge £12.50 admin fee for direct claims to compensate for the time/hassle involved, no charge if client pays up front then claims back.

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Mark Holmes — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 17:25:42 GMT

[quote user="Mike Martin"]

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]Particularly with pp's new electronic system you often have the money in less than a week.[/quote]

So, do you need to be PP approved practice for this to work? Or can anyone do this?

Thanks, Mike

[/quote]

I don't know, currently only PP are involved but there are other companies coming on to it so I guess not. We use telios operating system and it seems like it is inbuilt into that but I guess other systems will do something similar.

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 16:41:30 GMT

[quote user="amanda nicholls"]

no charge for filling out claim forms unless they are direct claims in which case I charge a £30 (inc VAT) admin charge,

[/quote]

May I ask who you charge - presumably the client not the insurance company?

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Amanda Nicholls — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 12:19:43 GMT

no charge for filling out claim forms unless they are direct claims in which case I charge a £30 (inc VAT) admin charge, I do try to avoid direct claims if possible but wouldn't refuse as the client has at least been responsible enough to take out insurance unlike some clients with no money!

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Clive Ansell — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:02:40 GMT

[quote user="Mike Martin"]

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]For a small administration charge we will do direct claims for any client,[/quote]

Can I ask what charge for this? We don't charge an admin fee. Does anyone else charge and admin fee and happy say what that is?

[/quote]

One of my regular practices charges a £6.50 admin fee for filling in claim forms. I personally think it is a bad idea, it seems to get a lot of negative feedback and resentment from clients as it cannot be claimed back from the insurers.

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:01:09 GMT

[quote user="Mike Martin"]

Can I ask what charge for this? We don't charge an admin fee. Does anyone else charge and admin fee and happy say what that is?

[/quote]

I nearly always charge an administration fee which is equal to my lowest consultation fee (£20) - it is yours' or your staff's time which is chargeable as any other procedure you undertake, clients are aware of this and accept it. Back to the OP: I certainly would not have given the client the £100 back while there was any question over the legitimacy of the payment, I think you may just have to put that one down to experience. I am very reluctant to make any direct claims for all the reasons mentioned: fraudulent or unacceptable claims, company paying owner instead of practice, slow payment etc etc., I have also had too many dodgy clients do a runner with the money or just not been paid. Pet Plan is the only company we will make direct claims with if my arm is twisted and then only when I'm certain they will pay. Whereas they used to be the only company thats seemed to pay without argument and on time even they seem to be being affected by the malaise that affects all insurance companies - trying to minimise/avoid/delay payment. Perhaps the financial situation is responsible for that and the bean counters are taking over there too.

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

patrick murphy — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:00:37 GMT

in my equine days I remember people who did a claim with me and then another well known for navcular and pocketed both cheques.

before the loss of use stamp a friend of mine who radiographed horses in the home counties aways wanted to say what is this horse's name this time quite frequently

wew just have/had one that tried a hip problem wiht us but fortunately we had the history from around the corner and have proof of her fraud.

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Bob Russell — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 09:20:57 GMT

[quote user="Mike Martin"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Actually we had a claim that should have been paid directly to us but was paid by mistake to the owner. PePlan checked the claim form and accepted their mistake, paid us immediately and presumably tried to claim back from the owner.

[/quote]

How do you get PP to pay you? This happens to us regularly.

To TRY to prevent this we:

We stamp the claim form with a big red stamp with our name on it - in the box 'who to pay'.
We attach a cover letter with the claim to say the claim is to be paid to us.

When the mistake happens and we phone PP, they acknowledge their mistaken but NEVER pay - simpy say opps, you'll have to get it off the owner then

So what's your secret to getting PP to still pay you?

Thanks, Mike

[/quote]

We told them it was their problem, not ours. The form clearly stated who the client wanted to be paid. This is their contract and nothing to do with us directly.

They had been instructed by their client to pay us. They did not so it was their problem to sort out.

We are at war with them at the moment over a dental claim they are picking holes in so at present all PetPlan promotional stuff is in the office and we have temporarily stopped issuing any cover notes so they may be getting more hard line at the moment.

We are very strict to make sure that claims we submit are proper and fair so really do expect them to be paid unless there is small print and conditions we know nothing about. This is once again between owner and insurer!

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Mike Martin — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 09:10:36 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]For a small administration charge we will do direct claims for any client,[/quote]

Can I ask what charge for this? We don't charge an admin fee. Does anyone else charge and admin fee and happy say what that is?

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Mike Martin — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 09:09:13 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]Particularly with pp's new electronic system you often have the money in less than a week.[/quote]

So, do you need to be PP approved practice for this to work? Or can anyone do this?

Thanks, Mike

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Mike Martin — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 09:06:49 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

[/quote]

How do you get PP to pay you? This happens to us regularly.

To TRY to prevent this we:

We stamp the claim form with a big red stamp with our name on it - in the box 'who to pay'.
We attach a cover letter with the claim to say the claim is to be paid to us.

When the mistake happens and we phone PP, they acknowledge their mistaken but NEVER pay - simpy say opps, you'll have to get it off the owner then

So what's your secret to getting PP to still pay you?

Thanks, Mike

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Mike Martin — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 09:01:41 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]I fear in retrospect it was a mistake to give £100 back to the client. You "should have known" as the lawyers say that PP had sent you £100 too much, and you should not have given it away.[/quote]

Yes....but.....in referral practice is it very common for the excess to be taken from the primary vet's invoice rather than ours. So we assumed that was the reason. We routinely take an excess as precaution in case our claim gets to PP before their primary vet's does. We assume, once PP's cheque comes through, that it is final settlement. But I understand your point Evelyn.

Mike

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 00:47:30 GMT

[quote user="Craig Reilly"]The small number of cases where a cheque has been sent to a client in error often results in months of wrangles - last one was in Bardados on my money when I called her![/quote]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Actually we had a claim that should have been paid directly to us but was paid by mistake to the owner. PePlan checked the claim form and accepted their mistake, paid us immediately and presumably tried to claim back from the owner.[/quote]

[quote user="Mike Martin"]What also bugs me is when we do a direct claim and PetPlan make a mistake and pay the client (not us), in that situtation they say it is up to us to chase their client for payment.[/quote]

They said that? They are wrong. They have contracted to pay you £x. They have not paid you. The fact they have sent a cheque for £x to someone else, whether it's the client, Joan Collins or the man-next-door-who-knows-about-dogs, is completely irrelevant. Send them to the debt collectors.

About the original posted problem: I fear in retrospect it was a mistake to give £100 back to the client. You "should have known" as the lawyers say that PP had sent you £100 too much, and you should not have given it away. On the other hand they should not be getting so nasty about it, given the general foul-up they made of the case.

PS I have just received a big fat cheque from Petplan for a claim, an animal and an owner that I have never heard of. Anybody out there wondering why they are still waiting for their cheque?

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

plantagenet — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 15:00:08 GMT

I had a similar issue where a client only had a certain amount of cash on her (typical, bet they don't do that in Sainsbury's) and left a small amount outstanding. Claim was sent off but the small amount is still there. Client has now b*****ed off to another practice, because they might have a magic wand to fix its ears. I phoned petplan to point out that the owner had, in effect, claimed fraudulently, since the money had never been paid in vets fees. The reply was "oh that's between you and your client" after a bit more explanation I finally got them to acknowledge that is was their money that had been appropriated as well as mine, but they still weren't interested.

Re: PetPlan issues... what would you do?

Craig Reilly — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:49:26 GMT

What I suspect is happening in these administrative nightmares is that the good Petplan staff who understand the real world we live and work in, are not involved when the underwriters get going. In situations like this, short of involving insurance ombudsman-types, I find dealing with any of the underwriters a logistical nightmare. I would not bother - instead I would phone direct and speak to a senior PP person - probably Howard Brown - and ask for commonsense to be brought to bear - usually works.

We do a lot of pay-vet-direct - as a business decision I would hate to reverse that policy - we would lose business. The small number of cases where a cheque has been sent to a client in error often results in months of wrangles - last one was in Bardados on my money when I called her! But overall few mistakes happen and PP pay up quickly - unlike some others I could mention!!!!