Pay Rises

Re: Pay Rises

Bob Russell — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 09:23:20 GMT

Treat the first job as learning and if it is fun enjoy it but if the pay and conditions are really that bad after a bit consider moving on!

Re: Pay Rises

An On MRCVS — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 00:17:15 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="An On MRCVS"] I'd be quite happy with an inflation related increase. [/quote]

You shouldn't be. You should be compensated for the experience you have gained. What year did you qualify?

[/quote]

2009 - at least I wouldn't have had a relative pay cut!

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]

Well, the first job is the toughest - it's the hardest one to get, and people don't want to leave after fighting so hard to get the first one. The second job is easier to leave, the psychological barriers aren't there. You've jumped once and you can jump again. I'm all for loyalty, but if you can get a better offer elsewhere, do so. If you'd prefer to stay; show this better offer to the boss and invite him to match. If he/she declines, you are free to either stay or go.

Good luck!

[/quote]

I think I know professionally (and possibly personally) I should leave the job but part of my really doesn't want to. On the whole I get on well the the rest of the team and have friends and family near by. And I still haven't quite shaken that new grad feeling of just being grateful that someone gave me a job!

Re: Pay Rises

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 23:51:12 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"] I'd be quite happy with an inflation related increase. [/quote]

You shouldn't be. You should be compensated for the experience you have gained. What year did you qualify?

Re: Pay Rises

Mark Hedberg — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 20:26:00 GMT

Good luck!

Re: Pay Rises

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 20:08:42 GMT

Hmmm....that does seem a little mean. I pay VDS, CPD, RCVS and one subscription on top of the basic salary. For one of my assistants, who is in provided accommodation, I also pay council tax.

Re: Pay Rises

An On MRCVS — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 19:25:49 GMT

[quote user="Richard Carter"]

How is getting accommodation, getting car, getting CPD paid, having RVCS/BSAVA/VDS etc paid then saying 30k not enough?

Perhaps we should ditch all the accommodation and other bits and pay higher salaries and then collegues (as opposed to assistants) who take up the job have to take up their personal responsibilities as well.

[/quote]

I'd like to point out that isn't the situation I'm in! its £26500 (including accommodation allowance, cpd and vds) + car, for which I don't get personal petrol allowance (and actually until recently was paying to drive round for work with the governments petrol allowances but that's another matter!) . I pay my own bills, council tax, RCVS etc. Plus at the moment its actually very difficult to 'invest in my future' without any spare money to, for example, save for my own house. I'm also not wanting to jump ship without making it work - I've raised the issues once, been told no, increased my responsibilities to make myself more useful and earn more money, increase the practice profile with our existing and new clients so think I deserve a bit more money - I'd be quite happy with an inflation related increase.

Re: Pay Rises

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 15:10:21 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]

If you want to finance a consumable or a piece of equioment with bankmoney you don't pay any interest? Please give me that Bank's name?" />

[/quote]

I meant, the money sitting in your bank account earns no interest to speak of these days.

As for using the VAT money while you've got it to buy stuff: well, if you account for VAT quarterly you've only got that money for 6 weeks on average (only for 15 days if you account monthly). That's not very long. A consumable might pay for itself perhaps in six weeks, a piece of equipment won't. And remember, if you don't hand that VAT over when it's due you are in big trouble. If you are using collected VAT to finance your business you are on very shaky ground indeed. (And yes, I have been there).

Re: Pay Rises

mariette asselbergs — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 15:01:13 GMT

If you want to finance a consumable or a piece of equioment with bankmoney you don't pay any interest? Please give me that Bank's name?" />

Re: Pay Rises

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 14:50:46 GMT

Yes, and in the days when there was measurable interest paid on bank accounts that was worth a little bit. But not now.

Re: Pay Rises

mariette asselbergs — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 14:43:30 GMT

But don't you realise that VAT is actiually a free loan from the government? You have the use of 20% of your turn over to swork with from the moment paid to the moment you have to pay it to government, interest free!

Re: Pay Rises

James Laidlaw — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 14:23:36 GMT

I can't imagine VAT will go away if you leave the EEC either.

Re: Pay Rises

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 14:12:31 GMT

There are many reasons we should get out of the EEC/EU/whatever it's called, but I don't see VAT as being one of them.

Re: Pay Rises

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 12:49:21 GMT

Yet another reason to get out of EEC ASAP

Wynne

Re: Pay Rises

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 12:28:59 GMT

[quote user="plantagenet"]

But it always surprises me that clients need to have it explained that 20% of the bill is not mine, it's the government's. I would love to give them 2 totally separate invoices: "this is mine and could you just pay this one for the exchequer and I'll pass it on for you"

[/quote]

The majority of my clients understand about VAT perfectly. Of course some clients don't.....................

Re: Pay Rises

plantagenet — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 12:20:17 GMT

Re: Pay Rises

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 12:15:44 GMT

[quote user="plantagenet"]I guess he was explaining how the VAT ain't the bosses money to keep - we are just the unpaid tax collector[/quote]

My point exactly. Let me put it another way. Richard was told he had to take in £500 every day. Fine. So £600 would be paid at the front desk. But surely any recent graduate would understand that? Unless he or she had never read a newspaper and had the misfortune to only ever work in practices where pricing was VAT-inclusive.

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]VAT reduces turnover because if they only have £500 they can only purchase £400 of service. Without VAT you could either charge more of they could purchase more.[/quote]

That seems a funny way to look at it. £100k of turnover is £100k of turnover, you just have to collect £20k for the state as well. To say VAT reduces turnover is like saying turnover is reduced by the general level of income tax, the price of petrol, the local unemployment rate........ all very true, but so what?

Re: Pay Rises

Mark Holmes — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 11:57:46 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Richard Carter"] how VAT immediately reduced turnover[/quote]

Huh?

[/quote]

VAT reduces turnover because if they only have £500 they can only purchase £400 of service. Without VAT you could either charge more of they could purchase more.

Re: Pay Rises

plantagenet — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 11:57:32 GMT

I guess he was explaining how the VAT ain't the bosses money to keep - we are just the unpaid tax collector

Re: Pay Rises

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 11:53:34 GMT

[quote user="Richard Carter"] how VAT immediately reduced turnover[/quote]

Huh?

Re: Pay Rises

Richard Carter — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 09:47:58 GMT

How is getting accommodation, getting car, getting CPD paid, having RVCS/BSAVA/VDS etc paid then saying 30k not enough? Depends on how good the accountant is but the 30k should be mostly available as disposable income (less PAYE and NIC). If you don't like the flat, ask for salary to equivalent rent value and find your own, don't like the car, do similar but when you then have to pay council tax, water, electricity, vehicle insurance, servicing etc may not be quite so well off and as mentioned above, once you start making these investments in your future, you will not be quite so mobile to jump ship without trying to make things work. Perhaps we should ditch all the accommodation and other bits and pay higher salaries and then collegues (as opposed to assistants) who take up the job have to take up their personal responsibilities as well.

My first job in UK my boss sat me down and said straight from start if I wanted to earn £24k I had to take in £500 every day (13y ago), if I wanted more, then there was a scale. He also discussed how VAT immediately reduced turnover, how much the nursing and support staff cost at a time when nurses could not directly generate fees. Was quite a wake up call. I think at that time it cost the boss about £800 to open the doors every day.

Re: Pay Rises

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 09:07:11 GMT

Micheal The profits become an assistants business if the practice decide to shed staff. Statutory redundancy won't keep you for long,and massive payouts are only awarded by tribunals if the sacking is unfair.If the practice show accounts which demonstate falling profits, and no-one else is taken on, then a judge will rule that it's a genuine redundancy and therfore fair

Wynne

Re: Pay Rises

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 09:02:54 GMT

I wouldn'tsay a new grad was worth £30 k , because quite frankly,they're not Someone 2 years qualified is worth more than a new grad, but the money has to be there.

It sounds tome as though profits were very low,but with the extra LA work should now be increasing, and if I was in An Ons position what would annoy me would be partners doing less work,and being personally extravagant-tactless tomove tobetter house when denying pay rise, although I can see long term benefits-buying at a good time (unless property prices fall further ) and obtaining mortgage with previous (better ) years accounts

The practice was obviously quiet , and since fixed costs will remain the same,profits will have nosedived. How much did they pay for the LA goodwill ? This could be a factor in how tight money is

If the partners had shared the extra OOH between them, I would tell An On tostop whinging and get real,but since they have given the assistants extra duties whilst doing less themselves,then I think they have been a little unfair.

I don't know An Ons circumstances, regarding partners/family,but with a practice flat, if he/she chooses to move there isn't the problem of selling property in a falling market

Wynne

Re: Pay Rises

plantagenet — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 08:20:20 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]As an assistant it's not my problem if the practice is having a bad year[/quote]

Does your employer know that is your attitude?

Re: Pay Rises

Alan Tevendale — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 07:10:55 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Seriously though - am I the only one who thinks £30K is a good wage for a new grad in mixed practice????

[/quote]

I can't see a problem with £30k salary although this would probably not include a car as I believe in mixed practice it is important for the practice to supply this if the employee doesn't want to.

I think the whole issue really should be about being open with employees. If you can't afford to give them a pay rise - tell them. Explain the options you have explored - has it been a case of lay off some staff or take (effectively) a small pay cut. Try not to create an us and them situation as you'll just end up with bitter staff that never work as efficiently.

Re: Pay Rises

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:56:59 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]As an assistant it's not my problem if the practice is having a bad year [/quote]

Er.............. yes it is.