Have you put your own pet to sleep? If you have kids, were they present?

Re: Have you put your own pet to sleep? If you have kids, were they present?

Rob Davis — Mon, 12 Sep 2011 08:49:16 GMT

[quote user="Utlendigur"]But your children had been lucky enough to be brought up in an environment where they weren't shielded from death and had developed an understanding of it, and coping skills. Pushing a child that hasn't had that upbringing, and has never confronted death before, to witness a PTS of a much loved pet seems to me that it would do more harm than good. [/quote]

Fair point. As the thread was about a vet asking if others had had their own children present when euthanasing their own animal I assumed that most vets' children would fall into this category. Each parent will know their own children best and how they are likely to cope.

[quote user="Utlendigur"]f a parent becomes highly upset or hysterical it can also be very frightening for a child, particularly a younger one, to see their parent out of control. I had a case in yesterday where the mother kept bursting into tears, catastrophising everything I said and thrusting the dog's lead at her 13-14yr old daughter, who was very quiet and controlled - dog only had mild pancreatitis. Having grown up in that sort of family I can attest to the damage that it can do to have to be the "grown-up" ![/quote]

I agree, and I guess we have all seen such situations. If the parent is likely to lose control then I agree that it would be best if children were not present. I meant that it is ok to allow your children to see you demonstrate emotion, and to let them know that you too are sad about the situation, but it is also important that they can see you keeping emotion in perspective and under control.

Re: Have you put your own pet to sleep? If you have kids, were they present?

plantagenet — Sun, 11 Sep 2011 10:28:46 GMT

[quote user="Rob Davis"]Many of their friends seem to be unable to make the connection between a shrink wrapped piece of meat on the supermarket shelf and a live sentient animal. To them it appears "cruel" to eat your own animals when you can buy meat from the supermarket.[/quote]

My children live on a working farm where we kill and prepare our own birds for consumption and also have beef and fat lamb.

However, I have not permitted them to see actual slaughter until the old enough to decide if they want to - they do help pluck and dress.

when old enough, they will learn to handle a gun a shoot what we will then eat, if they want to.

I did not take them to their grandmother's funeral because the coffin was open and I am very glad because that image, 10 years later is stuck in my mind.

I do feel we have a very strong roll to protect children from what can be a very unpleasant experience - gasping dogs, wailing parents etc. although I do most PTSs at home with heavy sedation so doesn't often go pear shaped.

Re: Have you put your own pet to sleep? If you have kids, were they present?

Stephen Courtney — Sun, 11 Sep 2011 00:18:41 GMT

We have a unique perspective on euthanasia. when i was newly qualified, and for several years past that, my main priority was to get it right, that everything would be slick. I was actually pleased with myself for getting a vein without a hassle, and for managing the clients expectations and having everything go smoothly. Of course there were some horrors as well, agonal gasping, neurotic senile dogs that wouldn't stay still or went nuts, we've all been there.

A few years ago I held my own dog to be pts, the third since i started vet school. It broke me up. I've never been able to handle PTS situations quite the same since. I used to pride myself on being practical-minded. Now if I have to euth an animal i know well, i always have tears in my eyes, i remember my last dog, i think of her in the ground ( one of my biggest regrets, but there was no option, this wasn't in the UK) in a garden we no longer own, and I feel terrible.

One of my clients, a local doctor who was very popular, has just euthanased himself. A middle aged bloke, about my age, and i liked him a lot, we always had a good chat about our respective jobs and he was always suitably impressed about the the range and versatility expected of a GP vet. He apparently had marital issues, but obviously things went deep. you'd never have known, we weren't friends, but this has been a shock. It;'s not just vets who have issues.

Re: Have you put your own pet to sleep? If you have kids, were they present?

Richard Carter — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 17:32:44 GMT

Think one tends to dumb down with children - most I have seen have coped very well when things are explained. I am still waiting for my hamster with testicular cancer that was taken to the vets when I was 11 ' to be fixed' - I had to wait in the car......

Regarding putting one's own pets to sleep - lots of sedation for you (after) and the pet (before) helps

Re: Have you put your own pet to sleep? If you have kids, were they present?

Utlendigur — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 17:24:56 GMT

[quote user="Rob Davis"]We asked our children whether or not they would like to be present when we put our dog to sleep.They all wanted to be there.[/quote]

But your children had been lucky enough to be brought up in an environment where they weren't shielded from death and had developed an understanding of it, and coping skills. Pushing a child that hasn't had that upbringing, and has never confronted death before, to witness a PTS of a much loved pet seems to me that it would do more harm than good.

[quote user="Rob Davis"]Why hide emotions from children. It's ok to be upset, it's normal.[/quote]

I agree but I think it depends on degree. If a parent becomes highly upset or hysterical it can also be very frightening for a child, particularly a younger one, to see their parent out of control. I had a case in yesterday where the mother kept bursting into tears, catastrophising everything I said and thrusting the dog's lead at her 13-14yr old daughter, who was very quiet and controlled - dog only had mild pancreatitis. Having grown up in that sort of family I can attest to the damage that it can do to have to be the "grown-up" !

Re: Have you put your own pet to sleep? If you have kids, were they present?

Rob Davis — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 16:57:05 GMT

[quote user="plantagenet"]Why are we so keen to shake youngsters out of that happy, sheltered, innocent world we all miss?[/quote]

Why are we so keen to shield children from the realities of life and death? My children have had a small amount of grief at school because we keep some animals which we are intending to kill and eat. To my immense pride they have robustly defended our corner explaining that they would much rather consume meat from animals which have lived a happy life than from intensively farmed animals with dubious standards of welfare. Many of their friends seem to be unable to make the connection between a shrink wrapped piece of meat on the supermarket shelf and a live sentient animal. To them it appears "cruel" to eat your own animals when you can buy meat from the supermarket.

We asked our children whether or not they would like to be present when we put our dog to sleep. They all wanted to be there. They understood what I was doing and why, and wanted to be with him at the end.

[quote user="plantagenet"] We no longer live in a society where death is witnessed.[/quote]

I think this is true, and is part of the reason why people are far more terrified of death than they used to be. It is the one thing we are all guaranteed to experience (hopefully later rather than sooner), so why encourage a fear of death? The vast majority of euthansias are extremely calm and peaceful, and most people seem surprised by and grateful for this.

[quote user="plantagenet"] I also think that to see an upset parent is a very unsettling experience.[/quote]

Why hide emotions from children. It's ok to be upset, it's normal. Putting on a brave face and pretending to be ok is potentially much more harmful.

Sorry, don't mean to rant - we all have different attitudes to parenting and this is a personal decision for each to make.

Re: Have you put your own pet to sleep? If you have kids, were they present?

plantagenet — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 16:37:55 GMT

I would never have my children present. I PTSd our old dog when the children were 6 and 12. I told them she wouldn't be there in the morning and they spent an hour cuddling her and feeding her treats and then went off to bed. they knew exactly what I was going to do because they spend a lot of time at the surgery. I waited till everyone was asleep and put her to sleep, very upset myself. the following morning I asked if they wanted to see her and to help bury her, the younger did, the older didn't.

I think children can appear to cope but be left with a very unpleasant memory, however well and gently its done. We no longer live in a society where death is witnessed. I also think that to see an upset parent is a very unsettling experience.

I am glad I was shielded from as many unpleasant experiences in life as possible until I was old enough to handle them.

I discourage children from being in the room at PTS at work, especially the older early teens and pre-teens who I think are very vulnerable, especially girls. Occasionally it happens and I've never seen a great success, even though, sadly, I manage PTS well from years of doing it. Occasionally, sadly, it doesn't go to plan then I would really regret having kids there. I do however think it is very important they know it is going to happen and have a chance to say goodbye.

Why are we so keen to shake youngsters out of that happy, sheltered, innocent world we all miss?

Re: Have you put your own pet to sleep? If you have kids, were they present?

Andrew Chadwick — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:22:32 GMT

I am always a bit wary of encouraging young children to be present for euthanasias - I can see why some owners like them to be there to help them accept the loss of the pet, or to learn a 'life lesson' but very often as previously mentioned the child just doesn't understand what is happening and gets very distressed. This will then upset the parents and the dog and the situation can quickly deteriorate. There is always the possibility of agonal breaths, vocalisation etc post injection which could be upsetting and difficult to explain. Often when children are present they don't seem to want to be there - we have all seen it I am sure. I think children are more pragmatic than most adults and in many cases I think explaining that the pet has been put to sleep because he/she was unwell and suffering, with or without letting them see the body afterwards or holding a 'funeral' in the garden can be a better way. I think there is some evidence that being present at the euthanasia of a pet can instill fear of needles and anaesthetics in young children. I don't think I would have my own children present when putting our cat to sleep, but it is very much a personal choice and you know your kids well enough to know if it will be better for them to be there or not. Not an easy decision, and I hope that when the time comes things go well.

Re: Have you put your own pet to sleep? If you have kids, were they present?

Rob Davis — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:02:32 GMT

I put my old dog to sleep around 3 years ago when my four children were aged between 6 and 10. We did it at home with my wife holding him (she is a VN) and the children all coped very well.

We currently have four Gloucester Old Spots which we are fattening up, and will be going to slaughter in around a month. In a funny sort of way I think this may be more difficult for the children (now 9-13) as the pigs are all young, fit and playful, although they have known from the start what their destiny is. We shall wait and see how that goes, hopefully they won't all become vegetarian.....

Re: Have you put your own pet to sleep? If you have kids, were they present?

fluffygirl — Fri, 09 Sep 2011 22:11:25 GMT

I think it depends on your kids and how well prepared they are and also how you deal with it. I've never had to put one of my animals to sleep (yet!) but know I will be a complete mess when I do. One of my worst experiences as a vet was euthanasing an elderly Golden Retriever in front of the owners and their 4 year old daughter and 8 year old son. It went smoothly enough but the little girl was SO distraught - the dog was her best friend and she just didn't understand what was happening . It would have been better if she hadn't been present IMHO. She's probably been emotionally scarred for life. I know I would have been.

Re: Have you put your own pet to sleep? If you have kids, were they present?

Stephen Courtney — Fri, 09 Sep 2011 21:39:14 GMT

I've held my last three, but didn't give the injection. Whether or not to have kids present, i feel, depends entirely on the kids. The issue is the peaceful and calm departure of your pet, your kids should be secondary consideration. If they are mature enough to be there and not make things worse, not frighten the dog by screaming , crying or sobbing or being over dramatic, then fine, they should watch - if they want to.

I have had some unpleasant experiences with young people witnessing PTS situations, but the worst are young teeenagers in my opinion. Followed by adults with a few drinks on board.

Re: Have you put your own pet to sleep? If you have kids, were they present?

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 09 Sep 2011 21:13:39 GMT

The iv catheter's a brilliant idea. This is one case I'd hate to have to go wrong.

Re: Have you put your own pet to sleep? If you have kids, were they present?

emma o'connor — Fri, 09 Sep 2011 20:14:21 GMT

I've not had to do this personally, but my colleague had to pts her elderly collie a few months back. She has twin boys aged 7, and she did it at home with the boys present, after fitting an iv catheter at work during the day so she avoided any unfortunate vein issues at home. She didn't regret it at all.