Cheap vets...

Re: Cheap vets...

James Laidlaw — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 22:58:06 GMT

However, I also don't think that we can or should relate GP human checks to animal checks. I'm a little concerned when I have seen a GP in the UK I have yet to have my pulse, temp, blood pressure etc checked. I have had people ask me to say aaah and look in my throat, been prescribed antibiotics and other drugs, but no basic health check ever. With no previous medical history being sought from my original country either. The big difference is that I can tell them if my stomach feels funny or my leg hurts or my throat feels sore. Most owners aren't regularly checking their animals for abnormalities and the vaccination check may be the one time per year that you get to see them, assess them and look for things that the owners may not have noticed. I've seen at least 3 young dogs last week with missing teeth that owners haven't noticed, and after having a dog develop a dentigerous cyst last year that was nearly at the point of pathological fracture at diagnosis, I take the time to explain what may or may not be going on when I notice missing teeth now.

I feel this consultation and physical exam is very important, VERY good value for money if done properly and feel very strongly about this. Others may not agree, but that's how I feel. Owners may take or leave this, but I imagine the best clients are the ones that want to have the exam done and the findings explained, as opposed to those that want to pay a tenner and be out the door.

Re: Cheap vets...

James Laidlaw — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 22:52:04 GMT

[quote user="vetmeddeni"]

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]

The health check was basic, as it should be for vaccinating a healthy dog. (If you go for a flu vaccination you don't get your abdomen poked looking for ovarian tumours either!). If people had sick animals, or complicated concerns than they were booked for a sick animal consult (reception sorted that out efficiently, and since you knew there were another 4 vets working through the list, I did not feel stressed out about spending more time with more complicated cases. I thought it was a good right priorities no frills basic vet health service directed at people who would otherwise not come into the vet. And it did provide proper vetcare when these properly vaccinated, wormed and flea controlled animals then still got sick.

[/quote]

But what is a basic health check? And would you not get those chatty chattersons in the consult room who would ask a lot of (unnecessary) questions - how do you shut them up?

I unfortunately deal with those kind of clients in every 2nd or 3rd consult - and I can often not stick to a 10min appointment.

What is the secret????

[/quote]

Experience.

Hate to sound a bit condescending (really isn't meant to be) but in time things tend to speed up a bit in consults as you become more adept at managing time and exam and discussion and history taking. I'm still not brilliant after nearly 10 years, but I blame the XY - lack-of-multitasking genetics...

Sometimes if people are really chatty and won't stop you have to take charge of the discussion, and I don't think thats easy - but it's easier now than it was last year or the year before that and so on.

Re: Cheap vets...

Anonymous — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 20:50:25 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]

[/quote]

But what is a basic health check? And would you not get those chatty chattersons in the consult room who would ask a lot of (unnecessary) questions - how do you shut them up?

I unfortunately deal with those kind of clients in every 2nd or 3rd consult - and I can often not stick to a 10min appointment.

What is the secret????

Re: Cheap vets...

Anonymous — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 20:46:58 GMT

I don't know - while there is a need for cheaper vaccines, I think a £7 pound profit is a bit ridiculous - and it doesn't then even matter who dispenses the flea and worm treatment - receptionist or vet. Most receptionists all over the UK (and other countrys) advise on this anyway even over the phone.

I think my time should be worth more than 7 quid. On the other hand, vaccines are overpriced and finding a balance would be nice. (Might I just also mention that a lot of PDSA clients can buy vaccines cheaply as well but choose not to do so. So what is the percentage of people who will vaccinate their pets only if the vaccines become cheaper?)

Re: Cheap vets...

An On MRCVS — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 18:55:15 GMT

The behaviour effects yes but not the medical stuff.

Really? I find that a lot of vets don't fully understand the behavioural effects of neutering. For example blanketly prescribing neutering for aggressive dogs, regardless if it is fear based.

Re: Cheap vets...

Rob Loxley — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 18:33:07 GMT

[quote user="newgradvet"]I understand your point however feel these things (at least some of them) in general should be done by a vet.
What do others think?[/quote]

While I may agree, this comes with a cost attached that must be borne by the client and which may then put the service out of their financial reach, and therefore they don't get the dog vaccinated - for instance. There are areas where charity or PDSA funded clinics do not operate and there is a need for a cheap service, which is being filled as far as I can see.

Re: Cheap vets...

Claire McConnell — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 14:45:47 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]I mean the repeatable explaining thing about taking the medicines, how, how long,side effects, and the talking about worms and fleas and neutering etc.)[/quote]

I understand your point however feel these things (at least some of them) in general shoudl b done by a vet. My reception staff do not know about side effecst of antibiotics, NSAIDS, steroids etc in enough depth that I would expect them to discuss them with clients.. After all if something does go wrong with treatment, side effects, incorrect admin etc - it is you the vet that is accountable.

I would also not expect receptionists to be able to talk in depth about the medical advantages of spaying to prevent pyometra or mammary tumours..The behaviour effects yes but not the medical stuff.

What do others think?

Re: Cheap vets...

mariette asselbergs — Sat, 08 Oct 2011 22:44:22 GMT

Ihave worked in Judy Walker's clinics. We were at least 5 experienced vets most of us foreigners but that might have been accidental. The waiting room was always totally full, meaning 25 -40 clients waiting. It was very efficiently organised and everybody including patients knew the programme: vaccination or booster with worming and flea treatment. Prevention is better than cure being the mantra for the whole thing. The health check was basic, as it should be for vaccinating a healthy dog. (If you go for a flu vaccination you don't get your abdomen poked looking for ovarian tumours either!). If people had sick animals, or complicated concerns than they were booked for a sick animal consult (reception sorted that out efficiently, and since you knew there were another 4 vets working through the list, I did not feel stressed out about spending more time with more complicated cases. I think what also gained time was that the vets did the vets thing, diagnosing and prescribing. A lot of the explaining thing was done by reception or nurses.

(I mean the repeatable explaining thing about taking the medicines, how, how long,side effects, and the talking about worms and fleas and neutering etc.)

I thought it was a good right priorities no frills basic vet health service directed at people who would otherwise not come into the vet. And it did provide proper vetcare when these properly vaccinated, wormed and flea controlled animals then still got sick.

And everybody worked hard, 8-6 with an hour break and good pay.

Mariette

Re: Cheap vets...

Anonymous — Sat, 08 Oct 2011 20:34:30 GMT

Hmmmmmm, watching all of these comments: if you have worked with Judy Walker before, can you tell us if appointments really only take 5 min on average??? What do you do if you have chatty chatterson in the consult room who comes in for a "quick" booster but then she wants to discuss her dog's dry skin, diet, nails and could you have a look at this too????

I'd also really like know though how you can make a significant profit with a dog booster of £15? Costs to vets of a V7 vax is ca. £8 incl VAT (isn't it? I might be 1 or 2 pounds off), that gives you a £7 "profit", which is used for a health check, which could turn into a 20min appointmeent with Chatty Chatterson.......not much of a profit here...

I'd also like to know who runs those vaccination clinics? A super cheap new graduate?

And do the other clinics just see sick animals then, no vaccinations?

Does anyone know???

Re: Cheap vets...

filip jaszczak — Thu, 06 Oct 2011 20:51:10 GMT

old joke but appropriate

Re: Cheap vets...

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 12 Sep 2011 16:37:18 GMT

[quote user="derrick carpenter"]I had someone complain that I'd left a few perfectly healthy teeth in a shih tzu's mouth. She was adamant that I'd left some so that the dog would have to have another dental and we'd be able to charge her again. some people..[/quote]

I hope you explained to her that if she took the trouble to clean the dog's teeth it would never ever have to "have a dental" again!

Or perhaps that would be seen as a ploy to sell her expensive toothpaste...................

People are bizarre (not an original thought).

Re: Cheap vets...

derrick carpenter — Sun, 11 Sep 2011 10:08:41 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Maybe you'd be better not to bother with the teeth anyway. Had a client complain big-style this week that I took her Shih Tzu's lower incisors out when 'she'd only brought it for a dental'. All consents were received - she was obviously not paying attention to anything I said. Apparently those teeth made the dog's personality and the dog is now ruined. She is devastated. She doesn't care that the teeth were brown and were removed with finger and thumb- she wanted them left in. Just waiting for the offical letter now......

[/quote]

I had someone complain that I'd left a few perfectly healthy teeth in a shih tzu's mouth. She was adamant that I'd left some so that the dog would have to have another dental and we'd be able to charge her again. some people..

Re: Cheap vets...

patrick murphy — Sun, 11 Sep 2011 01:51:53 GMT

true too. I by accidnt recived my local dantal surgey's equivalent to a VDS newsletter and by was it a shcok read

Re: Cheap vets...

Anthony Todd — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 20:34:00 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]too low a priority[/quote]

This is the real problem!

Let's put rip-off merchants in order of discredit by the public.

Plumbers? Vets? Banks? BMW Main dealer servicing?

Now lets put them in order of skills, knowledge and training.

Vets, Mechanics?? Plumbers, Banks.

And why don't solicitors get much worse press than we do, or accountants who give totally wrong financial advice or none at all??

And dentists get very little bad-press at all???

How do we change perceptions?????; that's what we should be looking at.

And talking of ripoffs just look at the actual cost of making a Chanel copy handbag, as evidenced by the knock-offs on e-bay. Yet no one complains about them, they sort of admire them, and in my experience most of the vet-fee-moaners have all the genuine designer kit!

The world isn't fair!!

Re: Cheap vets...

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 20:10:49 GMT

Re: Cheap vets...

James Laidlaw — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 19:56:41 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

ta. I realise you can't please everyone......

Just picked up 6 ex-battery hens for a nice retirement in my garden so feeling pretty pleased with myself at the moment!

[/quote] ... and they have no teeth!!!

Re: Cheap vets...

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 19:27:19 GMT

ta. I realise you can't please everyone......

Just picked up 6 ex-battery hens for a nice retirement in my garden so feeling pretty pleased with myself at the moment!

Re: Cheap vets...

plantagenet — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 11:38:44 GMT

poor you - what a stuff, hope you can have a non-vet weekend.

Re: Cheap vets...

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 08:20:06 GMT

Re: Cheap vets...

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 02:15:04 GMT

[quote user="Louise Alexander"]How many of us, when we tll new people we meet what we do for a living, get the response 'Oh, you mut be really smart/I could never do that, it must be so hard' etc. We're not undervalued by everyone (Although maybe when we start asking for money for being so smart it changes things![/quote]

On the other hand, you get the "oh, you must be well off then" either spoken or unspoken. Which used to really p me off but I'm old enough not to care any more . What really upset me was when my son was at school and we couldn't afford to go away on holiday: not only did he get cruelly teased at school because "everybody knows vets are rich", he actually believed it himself and thought we were being miserly.

[quote user="Louise Alexander"] (Perhaps the other 5 went to the Easyvets down the road for the dental?)[/quote]

Very likely! Or of course just didn't bother at all, "couldn't see the point", etc. Make a note to question them next time! If they went to Cheapyvets, ask what Cheapyvets actually did...........

Re: Cheap vets...

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 09 Sep 2011 16:27:54 GMT

Whilst we're daft enough to undervalue ourselves, clients will shop around, and worst of all take us at our own valuation.If we all behaved like other professions, and charged proper professional rates,they would realise that we were justified in being expensive, so would take out insurence, and animals would benefit by us being allowed todo our best

It's time Royal College stopped sitting on the fence, and stood upfor animalwelfare by giving us full backing whenever we reported someone to the police for not seeking veterinary attention soon enough (and the police tooktheir statutory duty to investigate all crime seriously ) A few £20k fines would soon bring the other owners into line

One of the charities I support is the Brooke Hospital for Animals. Now those owners are justified in saying they can't afford veterinary fees-peoplein this country are not-they just give their animals too low a priority-whilst blaming us if they are too feckless and irrespionsible to think in advance and take out insurence to be able to pay proper fees

Wynne

Re: Cheap vets...

fluffygirl — Fri, 09 Sep 2011 15:49:46 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]The only downside is that people always have and always will comment about how well paid you must be.[/quote]

I find this particularly depressing. A few months ago my GP friend asked my partner in a conversation over lunch if, after 8 years qualified, I 'had started earning some decent money?' She was actually quite shocked to learn the truth. But then the ignorance of GP's has been covered in another thread.....

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]£100 IS a lot of money for most people and £1000 is a fortune.[/quote]

Yes, I agree. But then they think nothing of spending 100's of pounds on the latest pedigree dog or even a fashionable mongrel. I can't believe the number of Chihuahua crosses I see which cost upwards of £400 - and yet people don't feel ripped off by this!!!

Re: Cheap vets...

Julian Earl — Fri, 09 Sep 2011 15:41:18 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

People want value for money but vets need paying too. The cheap prices charged are at least in part because of the lousy pay rates that vets get. This may not bother those with the attitude that the profession is 'self-aggrandising' who clearly are happy for a profession to become a group of 'technicians'.

It is this attitude that is clearly the way the profession is going and all I can hope is that my clients continue to want more than a bland visit to Spec-savers.

Yes people want value for money but they also want care. The profession was once more highly valued and respected than many GP's but now is becoming more viewed as a group of fleecing crooks. The cheap and nasty clinics and internet pharmacies are doing a good job of devaluing much of what brought us into the profession.

...[/quote]

Yep, they do want care but - as we all surely know - many don't want to have to pay a lot for that care. "A lot" meaning the equivalent of their weekly shop of course.

Anyway, I think that by and large we are highly respected, not as much as we used to be perhaps thanks to the Daily Mail and similar bodies, but I have always felt that one could tell any group of people that "I'm a vet" and barely anyone would have anything but respect. The only downside is that people always have and always will comment about how well paid you must be. When I was a kid at school working at a vet's at weekends, my school mates always went on about how their parents were charged £1-25 or whatever for just "ten tablets" or "just an injection", and "why don't vets ever do anything for nothing?"

The more things change...

Re: Cheap vets...

Julian Earl — Fri, 09 Sep 2011 15:26:54 GMT

[quote user="amanda nicholls"]

I know you were asking Wynne but I can't stop myself from replying (sorry) and hopefully Wynne will reply later and not mind me butting in! I really don't think we overvalue ourselves. Have you forgotten how difficult it was to get in to vet school and how much effort we put in once we were there? I was very dedicated to my studies and EMS and put a lot of things on hold because of student debt. I absolutely think vets should charge more for the things only vets can do and not worry about the rest - medicine and food sales in particular.

[/quote]

That's the point: you would like to charge what you think you are worth but the clients don't think the same. Frankly, it's tough... but the client will only voluntarily pay a value that they think is worthwhile. You could have spent a hundred years at uni, it doesn't matter.

Re: Cheap vets...

Bob Russell — Fri, 09 Sep 2011 14:04:12 GMT

My mind wanders a lot. A dirty look from one of the nurses or receptionists concentrates the mind. Now what was I talking about..........?