Germaine Greer, anyone?

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Robin Grimmer — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 17:37:03 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

So your dog gets a GDV, has surgery and recovers and that's all fine. It then has another GDV and because your're away/uncontactable/haven't left clear instructions it ends up being re-operated upon but doesn't do well - and now it's the vet's fault?? I might suggest one can't win...

[/quote]

You've hit the nail on the head there. Imagine the furore if they'd put the dog to sleep in her absence!

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 16:34:20 GMT

Weird thing is that if the doctor can't diagnose they're perfectly happy for the poor taxpayer to be charged-talk about double standards

Wynne

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 16:20:44 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

You've hit the nailon the head Martin I find some clients will doubt everything I say unless they can see it proven by a test or radiology,

Wynne

[/quote]

True Wynn, but there's an equal or greater number who think you're trying to rip them off when you suggest the condition you can't diagnose on a clinical examination needs a work-up, or can't understand why after they've paid for a blood test that you still can't make a diagnosis. Fortunately the majority are sensible and accept our limitations.

I still think that the majority of what Ms Greer said was true, it obviously touched a raw nerve with some. There is a common misconception over Abraham Lincoln's famous quote; 'Your can't please all of the people all of the time', when the true line he spoke substituted the word fool for please. Which applies here I wonder?

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 14:51:56 GMT

You've hit the nailon the head Martin I find some clients will doubt everything I say unless they can see it proven by a test or radiology,

Wynne

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Cat Henstridge — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 19:48:17 GMT

I read the article and she has a real point in the comments she makes about owners leaving dogs for long periods in inappropriate environments, not catering for their needs and then being surprised when they develop behavioural problems. This is a huge issue for animal welfare in the UK and one which is rarely tackled in the public eye. It is just a shame she left that and took the easy route of 'vet bashing' to ensure she got the headlines and the readers comments.

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 19:38:53 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Exactly the public expect a test, and if they've paid insurence so as to be able to afford the test, and it's not offered, and the guess is wrong,then that owner is going to be very unforgiving-mind you,if an abdominalmass can't be palpated there's something wrong with basic examination skills

Wynne

[/quote]

I feel the Lab test and cat scan joke for the dead parrot coming on.

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 17:29:37 GMT

She obviously never watched Last of the Summer Wine-that woman who owned the 2nd hand shop

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Bob Russell — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 17:22:00 GMT

Darling Germaine seems to see the bogey man in all with XY chromosomes. A female vet is so unlikely to rip her off!! Its all in the genes you know!

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 17:14:48 GMT

Bob I think a female veterinary surgeon would fare better, as she does have an unreasoning hatred of men

Wynne

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 17:12:38 GMT

Wynne

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Anthony Todd — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 17:08:24 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]Easy to agree with that but there is certainly a problem out there with over/unecessary diagnosis and treatment.[/quote]

IMHO the problem is the way modern vets are taught which is sort of slot machine diagnosis [or pokies, for the antipodeans].

Punch as many diagnostic buttons as you can think of, pull the lever and the diagnosis will come out the other end [or on the screen].

Gone are the days when abdominal masses could be diagnosed with your bare hands, without an Xray and/or ultrasound and/or bloods and/or some I can't think of....

Trouble is the public don't expect skills, they expect some sort of "test" and if you don't do a "test" how on earth can you possibly know that the 17yo cat with an irregular abdo mass the size of a fist, not eating and vomiting is not going to do very well.........

Then we have the no-no brigade quoting all the reasons why we can't extract the painful tooth or unblock the cat because, pull that lever again... High this, low that, none of the other so the extraction or unblock and "cure" in 30 minutes becomes a morning's intensive care.

And it's all got to be paid for.

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Bob Russell — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 17:01:21 GMT

Would she trust a female vet more than a male one? She is a very objectionable individual with pretty weird views.

The last time I heard her talk on the radio she was having a go at older men now they had access to a little 'blue pill'. Apparently it has given older men a chance with younger women and this is not fair!!

Sounds like jealousy to me!!

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Clive Ansell — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 16:55:14 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

If I were her veterinary surgeon I'd sack her.

[/quote]

Me too. she doesn't follow advice either, she "stopped the antibiotics and anti inflammatories after 2 days because she (the dog) was better"

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 16:14:55 GMT

If I were her veterinary surgeon I'd sack her.

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Bob Russell — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 13:38:15 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

I think there's a lot of fear of litigatious clients

Wynne

[/quote]

I have to admit that fear of litigious clients does not appear high on my list of considerations when deciding on treatment. I just treat other peoples pets as I would my own and that keeps my conscience clear.

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Rob Loxley — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 13:34:35 GMT

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Bob Russell — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 13:34:28 GMT

I would suggest she changes veterinary practice. If she is that concerned about being ripped off it is the logical thing to do. Is this work purely to generate fees? Not sure as it is not balanced by comments by the vets in question.

Perhaps she should be using a small, independent practice!!

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Tim Cheyne — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 13:10:43 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]

I'm not saying that we shouldn't listen, nor that some of our fees are not too high (or too low for that matter), but do we really need to lose sleep over this?

[/quote]

You might do if clients decide either to go down the road to what they perceive as a cheaper practice or consider that keeping a pet is too expensive and cannot be afforded.

Before WW2 pet keeping was mostly the occasional mongrel, stray kitten, canary or goldfish won at the fair. Few people had exotic fish or pedigree animals (although my family did). Then after the austerity of the war years men came out of the forces with money in their pockets, wanted to spend on some luxuries (there were still not many about) and so there was an 'explosion' of pet keeping, mostly pedigree dogs obtained from rather dodgy breeders, hence the proliferation of inherited diseases and the need for many more SA veterinarians. Since then the 'pet' market has expanded to species certainly not foreseen then but it could well go into reverse. Pets are not essential for life, food, clothing and housing are and in times of hardship the pets have a low priority. Perhaps that is why we are hearing so frequently of increasing numbers of stray (or abandoned) animals.

Tim.

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Gerry Henry — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 11:07:27 GMT

FGPs (Fee Generating Procedures).

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Malcolm Ness — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 10:36:23 GMT

[quote user="Gerry Henry"]

She's an opinionated old cow long overdue for culling; this from a few years ago - http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/stage/theatre/article4322720.ece note she see's no contradiction in forming and expressing opinions about the writer's work and the play without having read either. Just a mouth for rent.

[/quote]

Easy to agree with that but there is certainly a problem out there with over/unecessary diagnosis and treatment. The messenger in this case is easy to ridicule but the message is an important one that the profession needs to adress.

For example, in my area of expertise, the vast majority of MRI scans (especially those of parts other than the brain and those brain scans ordered by a non specialist neurologist) are of little potential benefit to the patient and similarly, the vast majority of arthroscopy procedures yield little if any information that could alter the way a case is properly managed. Likewise. my other half is a dermatologist who, looking to the literature ahead of the sales pitch, manages to control most of her atopics without resorting to lengthy courses of costly cyclosporins and bemoans the number of dogs that have had "the blood test" to "confirm" atopy ( and therefore start straight on the life-long costly cyclosp.) yet have had neither a flea rule-out or a skin scrape.

We are our own worst enemy.

Malcolm N

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 09:36:19 GMT

I think there's a lot of fear of litigatious clients

Wynne

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 09:32:14 GMT

Drontal useless if you're in a lungworm area

Wynne

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 08:45:31 GMT

[quote user="George Cooper"]

In the Telegraph, and available online, she slates the over-treatment and more importantly, the over-investigation. often facilitated by insurance. I, for one, think she has a point.

[/quote]

Absolutely agree, the only thing she got wrong was the bit about pet shops not being able to sell efficacious flea and worm products. As much as I hate the fact, Frontline and Drontal do work! Letter on its way to the telegraph with suggestion that Ms Greer might be better off changing vets. Doubt if they will publish it however.

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Julian Earl — Sun, 31 Jul 2011 19:03:22 GMT

Are we making too much of the complaints about fees? People complain about their gas bills, their car servicing bills, their TV licence, the cost of petrol, train tickets, football tickets, the cost of the washing machine repair man, taxes, bank charges, etc., etc., etc.

It's just what people do, all the time. I'm not saying that we shouldn't listen, nor that some of our fees are not too high (or too low for that matter), but do we really need to lose sleep over this?

Re: Germaine Greer, anyone?

Tim Cheyne — Sun, 31 Jul 2011 18:56:22 GMT

[quote user="Natasha Wilks"]

I have noticed in articles and blog comments lately a distrust of the veterinary profession.

[/quote]

I don't think that it is distrust so much as discontent with what are considered to be exorbitant fees. Unfortunately the British public has become so accustomed to the heavily subsidised Health Service that they have no idea of the present day costs of providing a medical service human or veterinary. They do get a shock when they go 'Private' but even then the fees of the consultant (often using the NHS infrastructure) do not truly reflect the investment needed and day-to-day costs of the private veterinarian.

Tim.