toilet duty aka taking the piss

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 15 Aug 2011 11:17:37 GMT

[quote user="Nutria7"]By the way cleaner in my surgery is being paid more than qualified nurses!!!!![/quote]

Do the nurses know this? Must be hugely demotivating if they do.

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Anna Battek-Kosiorowska — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 12:19:36 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]My first boss was of the opinion that "I pay you, you work for me during the time I have paid for" Nurses could often be seen weeding his garden![/quote]

Well...That post made me emotional...

My first boss was the same. He paid me equivalent of £120 monthly(ok, it was East European country where nobody cares about vets ha ha). So...I was sent to the farmer market to buy 20 pigs for him, to the shop to buy bacon for his mother-in-law as she was producing pierogi for his dinner, to collect his children from swimming pool, with children to the theater, with childrens ski equipment to service specialist, with deer ham as Xmas gift to one of his influent friend and to the wholesaler for 30 bags of pig feed which I loaded on my own onto my truck.

But I was young, delighted to have paid job as a vet and full of hope for the future. Now I am old grumpy emigrant vet in UK and I've just been told to work harder as I'm the newest vet to the team. When I pointed out: 'I've been here for 9 months now and Simon is the newest, boss answered before biting his tongue 'Yes, but he is a bloke'.And I'm not saying I was particulary lazy at the time. I should still kiss his hand as he didn't mention my polish background ha ha.

By the way cleaner in my surgery is being paid more than qualified nurses!!!!!And yes, more than receptionists, brilliant and professional but not of such importance to company;-)

Maybe they have same problem in Carol's place. Cheaper to have locum vet cleaning than cleaner?

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Amanda Nicholls — Mon, 08 Aug 2011 15:24:31 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Perhaps penalties for this type of fraud should be much higher!

[/quote]

I agree, can't see how this is the responsibility of GPs, they are performing a role they have to do when signing sick notes, it is not their job to police the benefit system. I can't imagine they enjoy seeing all these benefit fraudsters - I know I wouldn't want to be a GP!

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Bob Russell — Mon, 08 Aug 2011 14:05:38 GMT

I had a trapped nerve triggered by painting the bathroom ceiling. Bl**dy miserable.

In the absence of proof from diagnostic tests I cannot see how a medic could sign anything other than someone 'reporting symptoms consistent with whip-lash'. I cannot see how they can prove that a person has not got whip-lash either.

A private detective, watching a patient moving house, playing football etc is better at proving lack of whip-lash than a GP! Perhaps penalties for this type of fraud should be much higher!

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Stephen Courtney — Sat, 06 Aug 2011 22:02:01 GMT

I woke up with a frozen neck the other month, the muscles on the back of the neck totally spasmed, resulting in the mother of all headaches. It took some serious pain relief to keep going but i did. More fool me perhaps, but i am a medic oriented guy and i treat the bejesus out of any medical problem that comes my way - and that includes me!

Of course I would have gone to the doc if it hadn't come right pretty quickly, but the experience was rather a shock having never had such a thing happen before.

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Bill Manton — Sat, 06 Aug 2011 17:55:16 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

People with neck pain can do clerical work, therefore no justification for disability money-they've still got the neck pain at home

Wynne

[/quote] Apeaking as someone who has suffered at times from severe neck pain I'd like to see anyone do any sort of productive work when unable to sleep for more than 10 minutes without waking up in agony. Been reading the Daily Mail a bit too much Wynne?

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 15:52:40 GMT

[quote user="i am ed"]

Whiplash usually presents without any clinical signs, except very severe continuous neck pain. I don't see that you have much basis to criticise the doctors involved, except supposition. The doctors are in an impossible position.

[/quote]

In the case of my daughter's (non) incident, 3 doctors including a Harley Street specialist had (apparently) wrongly diagnosed whiplash when there had been no accident to cause it. At what point is the doctor obliged to determine if the patient's symptoms are faked, including determining that the incident that allegedly caused it did indeed take place? I would have thought there was some degree of self preservation necessary, if the case could result in a prosecution for fraud they may be on a sticky wicket especially as they were being paid for a second/third/fouth opinion. This is precisely why whiplash is such a common; at best mis-diagnosis or convenient excuse, at worst a deliberate ploy to deceive. Maybe if doctors were liable to be held to account in these cases they wouldn't be so quick to dish out the sick note.

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 14:28:49 GMT

People with neck pain can do clerical work, therefore no justification for disability money-they've still got the neck pain at home

Wynne

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Edward Jones — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 13:35:11 GMT

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 16:54:48 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] I'm sure the doctors got off scot free.[/quote]

So what did the doctors reports actually say?

[/quote]

This was over 7 years ago so I don't recall every detail and I don't remember if I actually saw a doctor's report but just out of interest I dug out some papers I'd kept and the 3rd party's solicitors' letter said that the doctors report had said he suffered from whiplash and gave the names of the doctors one of whom had a Harley Street address. Now it could be that the solicitor who just happened to be the same ethnic origin as the driver and the doctors was lying which would be even less surprising and the doctors said nothing of the sort and I could thus be completely misjudging the medical profession. Take your pick.

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 16:19:15 GMT

Something which would get us struck off

Wynne

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Anthony Todd — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 16:10:02 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] I'm sure the doctors got off scot free.[/quote]

So what did the doctors reports actually say?

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

plantagenet — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 14:03:09 GMT

[quote user="svn"]Should a RVN locum be expected to clean the loo on top of everything else, whilst getting a max of £10/hr?[/quote]

sorry - yes, and the floors, walls, shit in the kennels. I do it, my RVNs do it.

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 11:43:54 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

Get some fast food stickers:

"CLEAN AS YOU GO"

[/quote]

I've been following this post from a distance, unlike me to not get stuck in early, but this is the first sensible concise response. If I spray the toilet I clean it afterwards, if everyone did that there would be no need for a rota. I clean the communal toilet in my own practice from time to time but as the nurses use it 99% of the time they should clean it 99% of the time. As it happens I have use of a toilet in the surgery flat I don't expect anyone else to clean that, however when it's been used by a locum I expect them to not only have cleaned the bathroom but to leave the whole place in the (clean) state they found it. If they don't they don't get invited back.

Regarding dishonest doctors: my daughter was involved in a staged accident in which the perpetrator claimed she had hit him from behind. Despite his best efforts of unexpected braking she actually stopped with an inch to spare but amazingly he still persisted with a claim for damages to his car, compensation for his and his passengers whiplash (there was no-one else in the car) and for loss of earnings while off work. The sick notes were signed by not one but 4 doctors. They were all the same nationality as the driver which for the interests of being non-rascist I will not mention (but they were probably all from the same caste)! It took more than 12 months of arguing and stress to clear my daughter's name, even including a forensic examination of both vehicles to prove ours couldn't have been involved and repaired, and that the damage to his could not have been caused by rear end shunt as alleged but more probably a tree he clearly subsequently decided to back into. This surely shows not only the dishonesty of this man but the doctors involved. This went to the wire and he only withdrew his spurious claim the day before the court case. Amazingly, I don't believe the insurance company was keen to take this further even though this was clear case of fraud, I'm sure the doctors got off scot free.

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Anthony Todd — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 09:20:34 GMT

Get some fast food stickers:

"CLEAN AS YOU GO"

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

svn — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 02:01:06 GMT

Should a RVN locum be expected to clean the loo on top of everything else, whilst getting a max of £10/hr?

Locum RVN or not, Locum VS or not.... Some bosses will take the pee!

Ooops - sorry for the rant

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

filip jaszczak — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 21:23:04 GMT

What a waste of money to pay someone locum rate for cleaning toilet

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Martin Jones — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 20:37:37 GMT

Sheesh, you lot don't half get agitated. Perhaps best not to mention that whilst I'm drinking my way through France, I'm still claiming child benefit.

Wine is anything from a quid a bottle upwards, and after extensive research - peer reviewed by my wife - I have determined that I can't tell the difference between a £1.50 bottle of wine and a £3.00 bottle of wine.

But equally, locum work at £20-25 per hour means that two minutes ferreting around in a dog's bum (which befits my professional status) buys half a bottle of something drinkable, but two minutes on the same pay scale cleaning bogs (which is so beneath me) buys the exact same thing. Right now, after a very palatable bottle of bergerac and several stubbies, frankly I don't care which I do.

It's a good living, really.

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 08:55:27 GMT

I think it's a new/recent grad thing.All 3 of my assistants were male, and all actively looked for loopholes to undercharge-or just forgot-or made mistakes(funnily enough all the mistakes were in favour of the clients, whilst if they were genuine mistakes, I would have expected 50% to favour me )-the main reason I decided I would be much better off without them

Wynne

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Alan Tevendale — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 07:15:44 GMT

I'd have to agree with Mark there. I don't think sex has anything to do with it - it's just a new grad thing. As one becomes more experienced people start to feel more confident about charging correctly. The confident new grads tend to have no problem and the under-confident experienced vets do have a problem. Again I have seen no evidence myself that being either male or female affects this at all. As to whether female vets want to take longer with their clients or not I think most of this will be due to previous working practice - what they've been used to, again I cannot say I've seen a marked difference between the sexes.

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Natasha Wilks — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 02:04:20 GMT

[quote user="Alan Tevendale"]

In your post you say that 'Most (notice I said 'most' not 'all') female & new grads undercharge and take longer'. I presume you are meaning that female vets tend to undercharge and new grads undercharge and take longer. I doubt you'd want to acuse female vets of being slower than their male conterparts?

[/quote]

Hi Alan,

Great point for clarification.

In my experience, I've found that a majority of female vets like to take their time with clients therefore take longer in consults. It's not that they are slower.

It's not a sweeping generalisation, I've seen undercharging on both sides which is usually reflective of the vet being uncomfortable with the fees charged.

Considering the profession is becoming more female orientated, it is something for women to be aware of as it does affect their income.

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Mark Hedberg — Sun, 31 Jul 2011 21:56:46 GMT

I'd be inclined to say that's because most new grads undercharge; my personal opinion is that it's coincidence that they're female. Confidence issues strike both sexes.

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Alan Tevendale — Sun, 31 Jul 2011 13:24:33 GMT

I would definately agree that there is a problem with undercharging in vet practices in a fair number of cases. I can't say that I've seen a huge difference between male and female vets though. If anything it's the nurses that are the best at charging properly (all female at our practice).

Your probably right about males being a little more aggressive when it comes to negotiating what they are worth to a practice - or at least my experience would be consistent with that. The males I've seen come through interveiw tend to ask more questions regarding salary and contracts and once in the job tend to ask for a raise sooner.

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Natasha Wilks — Sun, 31 Jul 2011 11:34:32 GMT

[quote user="Alan Tevendale"]

If there are differences in male/female vets salaries out there then what do people think the causes are likely to be. Discrimination is one of the possible answers and if that was the case if would certainly need addressing. What are the other possible causes? Are men spending longer in the profession (traditionally)? Are the parts of the job that men prefer better paid (if these do exist)?

Ideas?

[/quote]

Still learning to use this site. This is the post I was referring to in my post above

Re: toilet duty aka taking the piss

Natasha Wilks — Sun, 31 Jul 2011 11:32:50 GMT

Hi Alan,

I have worked at many different clinics over the years and noticed a trend in charging or lack of.

Most (notice I said 'most' not 'all') female & new grads undercharge and take longer. This is not the same and should not be confused with over servicing.

It's not discrimination. If practices are looking at revenue to form the basis of income, then it become evident in the figures.

Most female practitioners and new grads have personal beliefs about fees, are not comfortable with charging and are more likely to feel bad for clients and either discount or give stuff for free.

I have seen this consistently is many practices I have worked at.

The other issue is the ability to negotiate a good salary as most female vets undervalue their worth.

For all the readers of this reply, if this really annoys you, it's designed to. You need to address your beliefs about charging as it will be affecting your income. Remember I said undercharging is different to over servicing. They are not the same.

This is an issue I will be addressing on my website as the most common frustration amongst veterinarians is their income or lack of.