New veterinary trade union

Re: New veterinary trade union

Simon Neuhoff — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 08:54:23 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

Christ you've been at it longer than me Evelyn or does that also include student membership? Actually even if it does thats longer than me and I thought I was ready to be put out to grass. Its a bit like my cycling magazines they give gifts and discounts to new members but not the established ones. Perhaps we should all quit then rejoin that would cause some disruption. Hey thats almost a union action.

[/quote]

I have certainly threatened to quite Vodafone on a number of occasions unless they offer me the new contract benefits when I renew mine - this works quite well!

Re: New veterinary trade union

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 19:35:53 GMT

Re: New veterinary trade union

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 18:43:27 GMT

44 years. Reckon I should be an Hon Life now.

Re: New veterinary trade union

Bob Russell — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 17:23:47 GMT

I have been a member for 20+ years so about time I got a loyalty bonus too!

Re: New veterinary trade union

Mark Holmes — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 17:20:26 GMT

Hang on having been a member for 10 years I expect the same discounts as new members for loyalty.

Re: New veterinary trade union

Julian Earl — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 17:03:05 GMT

Another BVA response:

Strength in numbers

Our strength as a representative body is determined by the number of members that we represent and in order to increase our strength we would like to utilise our most valuable resource - you!

From today until 31 August non-members can trial BVA membership for free for three months, or alternatively they can join the BVA and get 15 months membership for the price of 12.

With new services such as our free legal advice and support and so much more we think BVA membership is essential for all vets.

Spread the word >> www.bva.co.uk/trial

Re: New veterinary trade union

Simon Neuhoff — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 14:02:51 GMT

Potentially I think the biggest benefit to the profession from a union would be to represent the profession - ie as a system of checks and balances against the RCVS who regulate the profession but don't represent them. I know we have a BVA, BSAVA etc - but they don't serve that function.

Re: New veterinary trade union

Bob Russell — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 13:52:09 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]As an employer I am not quaking in my boots at a union. My staff have been told and I am more than happy for them to join.[/quote]

I thought you were a solo vet!

[/quote]

The BVU includes nurses and lay-staff!

Yes I am a solo vet but I do have help!

Re: New veterinary trade union

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 13:45:09 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="plantagenet"]

I try my damnest to be a good employer and most of my employees have been and are wonderful, but some have driven me very near the edge and I already feel the chips are stacked high in their favour and everyone is out there telling their rights and nuts to the sucker who puts life, soul and the family silver into giving them their living.

[/quote][/quote]

Seconded, or is that thirded.

Re: New veterinary trade union

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 10:55:52 GMT

[quote user="plantagenet"]

[/quote]

Amen to that. I've not read the details but are unqualified vet nursing staff allowed to join?, they are the most shat on group in the profession in my experience. When I was an assistant I would not have joined a union, if I didn't like a practice I quit and found one I did, its still not like there's mass unemployment amongst assistants and qualified nurses, they can virtually pick and choose. Interesting that Shams Mir is now a solovet. I understood that he proposed this union when he and his fellow protagonists were brow beaten assistants. This is not said cynically but I wonder how long he will maintain an interest now it is of little or no benefit to him. A true socialist if he does and although it doesn't rock my boat I'd have no objection to my staff joining but I can't help but feel that the overwhelming majority of workers in veterinary practice are happy to be there because it is largely independant of the restrictive working practices found in unionised working places.

Re: New veterinary trade union

plantagenet — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 07:56:33 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Shams is a single handed practitioner[/quote]

I can't help hoping that he learns how some employees can behave and how very alone you can feel as a sole employer - he'll be starting an employers' union next!

(Yes, I'm bitter)

Re: New veterinary trade union

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 22:17:12 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]As an employer I am not quaking in my boots at a union. My staff have been told and I am more than happy for them to join.[/quote]

I thought you were a solo vet!

Re: New veterinary trade union

plantagenet — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 18:21:27 GMT

Have I misread this - they are offering prof. indemnity insurance for £15 pa - I'll stick to the VDS thanks.

Re: New veterinary trade union

Gareth Dowdeswell — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:38:49 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]

2. Reduce the CPD requirement.

[/quote]

I definately don't agree with this requirement, but I'm not sure this is actually what the BVU wants. It says so on the frontpage in summary of the changes the BVU wants to the draft code of conduct, but in the actual detailed response to the code of conduct the BVU actually wants the responsibility shifted from the vet to those who employ vets to ensure they can fulfil their 35 hours per year. I think that's pretty reasonable, especially having met vets who get only 2 days CPD allowance.

Re: New veterinary trade union

Julian Earl — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 16:48:26 GMT

Some of the aims are, on the face of it, questionable:

1. Re-define our responsibility towards animals under our care?

2. Reduce the CPD requirement.

3. This one:

Q – How can a union work, where both the employer and employees are the members?

A – Currently, on all employment-related issues, the agenda is solely set by employers. The union will provide the necessary balance. However, it can only be a realistic force if it is able to consider both sides of the story. It will normally resolve disputes between members internally. In matters not amicably resolvable between members, the membership of the employer in question will be put on hold until the matter is resolved.

Why not the employee? Or both? What is the significance of membership on hold anyway?

Re: New veterinary trade union

Mark Holmes — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 16:36:19 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Nobody yet has decried unions as a bad thing. Read Mark Holmes again[/quote]

No I didn't decry them as a bad thing in theory, as I said I was broadly in favour of veterinary union, particularly to counter some of the power and position of the RCVS more than the employers. They seem to be deaf to members needs and a union would allow us to shout a little louder. However I have spent years listening to the likes of Len McClusky (and Brenden Barber for that matter) and quite frankly I would be inclined to punch them in the gob.

Presently Unite and the TUC have been hijacked and are being used to promote the political needs and ambitions of a few at the top. I'm sure everybody has experienced the poison that can be produced by one member of staff constantly telling others why they should be dissatisfied, even if it had not occurred to them. It seems to me thats exactly what the Unions have done for years. Why? Because a good fight is the best way to increase the profile and justify the salary of those in power.

A Veterinary Union is a great idea but not in bed with Unite.

Re: New veterinary trade union

Bob Russell — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 15:49:10 GMT

Shams Mir wrote a very good, well balanced letter to the RCVS (also printed in the Vet Record) regarding the imposition of the Health Protocol. The original draft was a bit scary and would have allowed the RCVS to wield considerable clout whilst being fairly unaccountable to the profession.

The final protocol was a lot more sympathetic and 'fit for purpose' at least in part because of this (and other) opinions.

As an employer I am not quaking in my boots at a union. My staff have been told and I am more than happy for them to join.

Re: New veterinary trade union

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 15:36:49 GMT

[quote user="Gareth Dowdeswell"]I guess we could all work to rule and refuse to see any non-suffering animals?[/quote]

Yeh, I'm sure that would gain the sympathy of the public

[quote user="Vikki Halliday"]

Congratulations Mr Mir,

I am not sure why your detractors are quoting unions as a bad thing, in the right circumstances they are excellent and aid in implementing fair and reasonable standards for individuals who's voice might othewise not be heard.

[/quote]

I think he likes to be Dr Mir.

Nobody yet has decried unions as a bad thing. Read Mark Holmes again.

[quote user="Vikki Halliday"]and use the union for what it is intended, and not, (as some have in the past), hijacked it for personal greatness.[/quote]

I don't think there's been a veterinary trade union before, has there? There was something attempted in the seventies, but it fizzled out very quickly. What did you have in mind?

[quote user="Shams Mir"]

'm sure if the readers take a moment to go through the specific information, especially the members' information brochure, provided on the following links, they will be able to make more informed comments.

[/quote]

Hmmmmm..... " reduction the CPD requirements, and most important of all creation of separate codes of conduct for employers and the employed veterinary surgeons,"

Re: New veterinary trade union

Bob Russell — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:56:10 GMT

Good. I hope this will help weed out some of the really bad employers and put them under pressure to behave. It may have some effect on those that cut costs at the price of the staff working for the practice.

Re: New veterinary trade union

Gareth Dowdeswell — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:40:21 GMT

Remember some people saying this would never happen, good to see it has. Apparently employers are eligible to join as well, so I can see this union having the same problems as the BVA, but will definately give some thought to joining when my BVA membership expires.

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]

Exactly how are you supposed to strike? That has always been my question...

[/quote]

I guess we could all work to rule and refuse to see any non-suffering animals? Given that outside the state sector the union wouldn't be dealing with one large employer I can't see this union ever calling a strike.

Re: New veterinary trade union

Vikki Halliday LLB — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:45:50 GMT

Congratulations Mr Mir,

I have been a member of Prospect union for many years, after a spell in Government, and can honestly say that without them I could not have got to where I am after receiving excellent support at an industrial tribunal.

I hope people realise what a benefit to the profession this could be, and use the union for what it is intended, and not, (as some have in the past), hijacked it for personal greatness.

Re: New veterinary trade union

Shams Mir — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:39:26 GMT

I'm sure if the readers take a moment to go through the specific information, especially the members' information brochure, provided on the following links, they will be able to make more informed comments.

Re: New veterinary trade union

Tim Mainland — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:15:36 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"] (Must say, I knew that work was going on to set up a veterinary union, but this was the first I'd heard that one had actually been established ...)

Trying to get hold of Shams Mir to find out more![/quote]

Just spoken with Shams Mir, who tells me that the British Veterinary Union officially came into existence yesterday afternoon, following three years work by VetsforBVU.

There will be more information coming in due course, but Shams is a single handed practitioner (by which I mean he practises alone, rather than being a unidexter), so when time permits.

[/quote] Well how interesting. I do hope that Mr Mir's small but merry band of staff are to be the inaugural members of the BVU and will show us all the way forward.

Re: New veterinary trade union

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 10:08:42 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"] (Must say, I knew that work was going on to set up a veterinary union, but this was the first I'd heard that one had actually been established ...)

Trying to get hold of Shams Mir to find out more![/quote]

Just spoken with Shams Mir, who tells me that the British Veterinary Union officially came into existence yesterday afternoon, following three years work by VetsforBVU.

There will be more information coming in due course, but Shams is a single handed practitioner (by which I mean he practises alone, rather than being a unidexter), so when time permits.

Re: New veterinary trade union

Simon Neuhoff — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 09:08:45 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]NO interest of any sort. Given their association with Unite. Might have been interested. Not now

[/quote]

Agreed. I for one thought the concept of a veterinary "union" was interesting, (though I would have preferred to use a differen term) I feel the current organisations are toothless and sluggish and this one could have taken on a new approach. However I would not be prepared to be associated with UNITE in any way, shape or form.