RCVS Presidents arrogant? self important? Up their own ....?

Re: RCVS Presidents arrogant? self important? Up their own ....?

Tim Cheyne — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:16:48 GMT

As a (very) elderly semi-retired veterinarian long away from private clinical practice I too am surprised at some of the profiles reported on the various threads as deemed necessary for what seem to me to be fairly routine procedures. The discussion on laboratory analysers some time ago contained a number of such examples. I have assumed that in this litigious age they are necessary for insurance purposes or to avoid litigation but if that is not so then I agree with the previous poster that the cost is probably deterring at least some clients and leading to criticism of overccharging.

Tim.

Re: RCVS Presidents arrogant? self important? Up their own ....?

Anthony Todd — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 16:54:43 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]The fact the RCVS keeps these issues very much at arm's length[/quote]

Yes, I've always thought excessive fees and/or unnecessary procedures bring the profession into disrepute and should be addressed by the RCVS.

Let's say a pyo on a staffy, over £5000, to take an exaggerated example, surely as above?

A full blood on a normal dog, in the owner's eyes, with a broken toe nail [actual example]?

Pre-anaesthetic bloods in excess of the human NICE protocols??

Certainly doesn't bring the profession into repute does it.

Re: RCVS Presidents arrogant? self important? Up their own ....?

Bob Russell — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 11:27:20 GMT

Unfortunately (IMO) the corporates are here to stay. Some will go under because they are not based on sound financial principles/profitability. Others will survive by aggressive marketing and pricing but here the vets involved are likely to pay the ultimate price. This price is ridiculously long and ultimately unsustainable working hours, large loans and when they are worn out after a few years the need to find a new buyer.

I have no objection to the term vet. Allowing non-vets to own practices has done plenty to devalue the profession.

Re: RCVS Presidents arrogant? self important? Up their own ....?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 11:00:07 GMT

If we all took proper pride in our professional standing, then we would all of us charge proper professional rates for our advice, not try to undercut the opposition by cheap consultation fees, then depend on pet shopsales to make upthe deficit. If we all took proper professional pride in being veterinary surgeons, then no-one would ever apply for a job with a corporate practice where the owners (bosses ) are lay people. If we all took proper professional pride in our vocation, we would always refer to ourselves as veterinary surgeons

The 1st and 3rd of these observations are the result of conversations with one of the great Presidents of all time-Prof Alaisdair Steele-Bodger-who twice told me off for saying vet before I realised he was right-if we devalue ourselves-others will be only too pleased to devalue us further

Wynne

I'm just going to put my tin hat on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: RCVS Presidents arrogant? self important? Up their own ....?

Bob Russell — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 10:45:42 GMT

My original rant was based on reading very negative comments made. At a time that the profession should be showing a united front. This is a fine profession that is under intense pressure to commercialise into a series of 'shops'. Unfortunately there was a distinct 'shutting of the stable door' impression in some of the comments.

As some levels of the profession become seen as salesmen it stops being a profession. I am of an age where I will resist this but without strong and proper leadership this decline in status will continue.

I suspect the damage is done and Specsavers is here to stay and clients will continue to be more and more suspicious of vets motives.

I was obviously not in a good mood when I wrote the original post but we need to have a strong, honest, no-bullshit leadership not one that preaches about us taking pride in our work.

Let us hope that the RCVS gets the leadership it really deserves!

Re: RCVS Presidents arrogant? self important? Up their own ....?

Mark Hedberg — Mon, 25 Jul 2011 20:51:30 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Jerry's roots are in 1st opinion mixed practice-he is a nephew of the late Alaistair Nesbitt of Haverfordwest.

Wynne

[/quote]

My grandfather was an artist. Thanks to his influence I enjoy the work of the Impressionists. Regrettably, this has imbued me with no artistic talent whatsoever.

I'm delighted Mr Davies was devoted to his uncle, and I'm quite happy to believe he's qualified to be RCVS president - I don't believe, however, that one necessarily leads to the other.

Re: RCVS Presidents arrogant? self important? Up their own ....?

David Mills — Mon, 25 Jul 2011 18:49:25 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

someone worked out that the overspend is costing each of us £16-annoying, but not bankrupting.

[/quote]

This is trivialising the issue away. It is essentially the same as someone taking your money for no benefit to yourself, without your consent. No-one ever argued it was bankrupting. It's about principle, the fact that £16 x 25,000 or so is a hell of a lot of money, and it's been spent by RCVS because it's someone else's money.

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

On the other hand, RCVS have opposed DEFRA attempts to increase lay TB testing, which could bankrupt manty traditional small mixed practices, sothey deserve praise for this

[/quote]

No, they don't. Their function is, or should be, primarily a regulator, not a lobbying body. They, legally, have no business lobbying, and it is this sort of dabbling by which the RCVS justify keeping the ridiculously overpriced premises in London.

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

What annoys me far more, is a lay observer to PIC wanting more power to limit fees

[/quote]

This is very annoying, I agree. But does it reflect public perception? Just imagine how much good work could have been done with RCVS promotional material detailing 'veterinary fees in straightened times', circulated by practices to clients, set out by the RCVS, rather than the pathetic new branding. The fact the RCVS keeps these issues very much at arm's length is yet another indication where its priorities lie.

Re: RCVS Presidents arrogant? self important? Up their own ....?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 25 Jul 2011 18:11:22 GMT

I'm reserving opinion on these-the sums are eye-watering, but I wouldn't want to rock the boat if legal redress is available,which could be spoiled by too much talk-which is certainly the impression I gained from Peter Jinman's remarks. I know very little about IT so can't comment, RCVS is certainly uncomfortably cramped, but £1/2 million to convert a cellar seems OTT-even though it's next to the river, and London rates for craftsmen make me jealous, but toget a sense of proportion-someone worked out that the overspend is costing each of us £16-annoying, but not bankrupting. On the other hand, RCVS have opposed DEFRA attempts to increase lay TB testing, which could bankrupt manty traditional small mixed practices, sothey deserve praise for this. What annoys me far more, is a lay observer to PIC wanting more power to limit fees

Wynne

Re: RCVS Presidents arrogant? self important? Up their own ....?

Anthony Todd — Mon, 25 Jul 2011 17:12:55 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Well I think Jerry has the potential to be one of the great RCVS Presidents. [/quote]

Well he might if he listens to, and acts on, frank and sensible comments and suggestions from members who've been successfully running whelk stalls, and sometimes even more than one, successfully for as long as he's been a vet.

The response to the IT and LGF debacle certainly doesn't fill me with optimism.

Re: RCVS Presidents arrogant? self important? Up their own ....?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 25 Jul 2011 15:28:15 GMT

Well I think Jerry has the potential to be one of the great RCVS Presidents. One of the many divisions in our small profession is that between practitioners and academics. Too many of them openly sneer at hard-working practitioners-even within hearing of lay staff. We , in turn, consider that many of them couldn't run a whelk stall at a profit.

Jerry's roots are in 1st opinion mixed practice-he is a nephew of the late Alaistair Nesbitt of Haverfordwest. His enormous respect for his uncle is obvious from the obituary he wrote in the VR. He had the courage to break new ground when opening a private referral centre, at a time when very few referrals were available outside universities-and has made it an enormous success. Academics must respect him, as he has a PhD and 2 Diplomas, whilst if you talk tohim,you will realise he hasn't forgotten what mixed practice was like, and most importantly, respects practitionres, so I think he deserves equal respect in return

Wynne

Re: RCVS Presidents arrogant? self important? Up their own ....?

Anthony Todd — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 18:46:01 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]something over which it has no control.[/quote]

Or everything??

One's opinion is certainly coloured by the recent IT and LGF controversy.

Patricularly when it is accompanied by obfuscation and opacity yet the offered solution is going to be a private enquiry conducted within the organisation which created the problem, whilst spending vast sums of its members money to little avail.

Must lead to yet more obfuscation and opacity surely?

As we are beginning to see in the public arena the best solution to major problems is transparent honesty and, let's face it, the blame could well lie not with the RCVS council but with the software developers or others employed to develop what appears, to us, 'cos we're given no information, a simple database.

In this day of busy lives and digital communication why on earth didn't the RCVS invite comments, suggestions, or desires from the members; easy to digest, file, forward on, paste into the spec etc. Why we could even get our degrees pasted back into the register!

That's one of the things that seems so nonsensical and totally avoidable.

Re: RCVS Presidents arrogant? self important? Up their own ....?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 17:35:48 GMT

Calm down dear its only an article. The rot started when vets were allowed to advertise, progressed through allowing non-vets to own practices and got worse when we were told we had to hand out prescriptions to all and sundry for no charge. If we have to compete with on-line pharmacies and low cost veterinary clinics which are just cherry picking how long before we say, 'if we can't beat 'em, join 'em'. OK the moratorium on prescription charges is over but I don't know what our quaint RCVS could have done about any of these, the world progresses and it is only guilty of not trying a bit harder, but ultimately fruitlessly, to maintain the staus quo. There will always be a large percentage of vets who will sell their soul for a few shillings profit and if Mr Davies is having a dig at them then all the better. Sadly they won't give a toss, so it is up to those of us who do take pride and do still have the respect of the public to hold on in there and not give in. Sadly the days when being a vet was seen as something to be proud of are fading fast when the get rich quick and celebrity culture is more important to most of the public and sadly to the modern generation of graduates who may not see the veterinary profession as a career but either as a road to riches or alternatively just a job. I am no fan of our august governing body but think Mr Davies is stating the bleedin' obvious, blame contemporary culture and the media not the RCVS for something over which it has no control.

Re: RCVS Presidents arrogant? self important? Up their own ....?

Bob Russell — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 16:02:25 GMT

Mr Davies also discusses the value of the motto on the RCVS coat of arms. Fat lot of good that is to us now the coat of arms has been replaced with a doodle!

Re: RCVS Presidents arrogant? self important? Up their own ....?

Richard Carter — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 14:19:04 GMT

Nurse!!! Mr Russell's medication ASAP!!!