Suture time at RCVS - what a shame

Re: Suture time at RCVS - what a shame

J G Wray — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 15:54:14 GMT

All of you who are concerned about the sewing circle's remit in respect of the RCVS IT and LGF program might like to know that Prof Bill McKelvey has a public email at bill.mckelvey@sac.co.uk - this was provided by the notice on vetsurgeon.org from Mr G

JGW

Re: Suture time at RCVS - what a shame

Bob Russell — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 15:28:58 GMT

This must have been discussed at previous meetings and minuted. If not, why not?

Re: Suture time at RCVS - what a shame

Anthony Todd — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 15:21:06 GMT

Doesn't anyone know the TOTAL cost of the IT program and whether it included the hardware?

Re: Suture time at RCVS - what a shame

Richard Carter — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 14:25:33 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]RCVS review group .... has no remit [/quote] Am concerned about this 'no remit' that keep being quoted - are the right people in charge or not? If the President and Council is aware of a problem, it is surely his/her/their duty to take action and to trample down any barriers that may be erected?

Re: Suture time at RCVS - what a shame

J G Wray — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 07:29:47 GMT

[quote user="Dexter Smith"]A database to manage a few thousand veterinary surgeons, their qualifications and the practices they work in? Seems to me a reasonably proficient 6th former studying computer science could have written one in an afternoon. [/quote]

Apparently not.

You, as Ms RCVS have a choice. You can believe that the premise for the LGF and IT projects was sound, or not. You haven't been working in a building which has hot-bedded because of the lack of space. You haven't been working with legacy computer systems. I'm prepared to allow some space for RCVS to have thought about meeting a need. In respect of the IT project but not the LGF, there was a certain amount of time and effort put into researching their answer and this is loudly touted in the few documents that are available - in other words they strenuously justify the choice of product, or the "albatross" as it has become known.

There is a dearth of documentaiton surrounding the original spec or publication of the Project Initiation Document for instance, so this is something we have to take on trust from RCVS. in the estimation of the outgoing Pres this was another thing carefully handled, so no worries there then.

The RCVS review group - the sewing circle - has no remit to look at the premise for either project by the way, so we have to trust RCVS that the projects were required.

JGW

Re: Suture time at RCVS - what a shame

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 23:48:14 GMT

[quote user="Dexter Smith"]t just occurs to me reading all this that maybe we aren't seeing the wood for the trees. All the correspondence seems to concentrate on the overspend, the poor management, the areas of responsibility or the original cost. No-one seems to have questioned exactly what the RCVS were trying to buy. A database to manage a few thousand veterinary surgeons, their qualifications and the practices they work in? Seems to me a reasonably proficient 6th former studying computer science could have written one in an afternoon.[/quote]

All true. However I presume that this project must have included all new hardware as well.

Re: Suture time at RCVS - what a shame

Utlendigur — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 23:06:07 GMT

Just having a clear out and I came across the RCVS Review 2011 - with the strapline "Another year carefully handled".......

Re: Suture time at RCVS - what a shame

Dexter Smith — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 21:50:32 GMT

It just occurs to me reading all this that maybe we aren't seeing the wood for the trees. All the correspondence seems to concentrate on the overspend, the poor management, the areas of responsibility or the original cost. No-one seems to have questioned exactly what the RCVS were trying to buy. A database to manage a few thousand veterinary surgeons, their qualifications and the practices they work in? Seems to me a reasonably proficient 6th former studying computer science could have written one in an afternoon. When you thing what our own practice management systems manage to do with stock contol, billing, lab reports, invoicing, clinical records etc etc, I can't see how it could be more complicated than these, and, unless the poeple concerned were trying to re-invent the wheel, why it should be so expensive to write, and that nothing exists that could not be adapted for the purpose. Just another version of the Emperor's New Clothes?

Re: Suture time at RCVS - what a shame

Anthony Todd — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 09:20:18 GMT

It has just occurred to me that although the IT overspend is ridiculous I don't know the "budgeted" amount.

I was sort of mentally thinking that was the total spend, even if that overspend was grossly excessive, but the total spend must be much more than that!

Can anyone tell me what the "budget" or ball park figure was, or was it just the quote they obtained?

Re: Suture time at RCVS - what a shame

J G Wray — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 08:54:22 GMT

[quote user="Judith Joyce"]

[quote user="J G Wray"]The Chairman is already in the Registrar's pocket[/quote]

Will you expand??

[/quote]

She through the Comms department wil be controlling any information that flows toward him - inflow

He has copied the Registrar in on our correspondence. outflow

How can he be independent and onjective when she is one of the main protagnoists?

weird.

JGW

Re: Suture time at RCVS - what a shame

Judith Joyce — Thu, 14 Jul 2011 08:37:41 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]The Chairman is already in the Registrar's pocket[/quote]

Will you expand??

This is looking horribly like a shabbily orchestrated cover-up. My understanding is that they are going to have a secret cosy discussion amongst themselves. No expertise or independent advice will be sought or considered. No other perspective will be acknowledged, let alone considered. The members will be excluded absolutely from all stages of this process and at some, as yet undefined point in the future somebody may (or may not!) tell us something. If negligence, corruption or criminality is found or suspected it might be swept under the carpet and we, the members of the Royal College will never know.

Regrettably, we have no good source of verifiable information and remain dependent upon the "investigative journalism" of JGW and others - this is a substantial failing on the part of RCVS. The continued silence of the councillors previously so active on this forum is now looking scary. Having been involved in RCVS and BSAVA previously, I am aware that coucil membership comes with some rather significant responsibilities in law - in effect, the buck stops at council. I wonder if the collective silence stems from the "Oh sh*t" moment that occurred when they consulted their own lawyers and discovered that there was rather more to being an RCVS councillor than the occassional jolly to London.

The longer RCVS allows this information vacuum to persist and the longer that councillors remain disengaged from their duties to the membership, the worse the speculation will become.

Malcolm N

Re: Suture time at RCVS - what a shame

J G Wray — Wed, 13 Jul 2011 22:40:29 GMT

The final line up for the RCVS sewing circle

Prof Bil McKelvey - already in with the Registrar

Judith Webb

Richard Davis - a big fan of the Registrar see Council stuff passim

Unbelievable

JGW

Re: Suture time at RCVS - what a shame

Anthony Todd — Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:49:10 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]The RCVS appointed Review Group looking into the LGF and IT project stuff will not be taking any comments from outside RCVS[/quote]

I am amazed that, in light of the deficit which is the liability of the members, they will not be taking comments from external IT professionals, quantity surveyors and a forensic accountant.

To keep any "comments" from the members certainly insults me.