Proof of client's identity

Re: Proof of client's identity

Martin Jones — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 13:53:47 GMT

[quote user="Laurence Webb"]

[quote user="Martin Jones"]Best thing to do? Photocopy their heads for your wall of shame.[/quote]

That sounds much more effective! Do you derive any satisfaction from trying to the the photocopier lid closed over their heads?

[/quote]

Yes.

You just have to persevere (think Vinnie Jones in Lock Stock)

Re: Proof of client's identity

Clive Ansell — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:06:30 GMT

I cannot understand the reason to give large amounts of credit at all, other than for immediate and basic life saving emergency care? certainly not for c-sections where we know that many will not pay despite what is agreed at the time.

Most people have credit and/or debit cards, and it is possible to arrange a loan through a bank or loan shark. alternatively get them to phone a friend. Driving home from Birmingham last night I noticed numerous "Money shops" and pawn brokers, get them all to pawn their sofas and stereos.

Re: Proof of client's identity

Laurence Webb — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:00:10 GMT

[quote user="Martin Jones"]Best thing to do? Photocopy their heads for your wall of shame.[/quote]

That sounds much more effective! Do you derive any satisfaction from trying to the the photocopier lid closed over their heads?

Re: Proof of client's identity

Martin Jones — Mon, 20 Jun 2011 14:56:31 GMT

[quote user="Laurence Webb"]

whether we can legally keep photocopies of ID documents without having them encased in a big purpose built steel safe to protect the client. If we've got copies of ID but can't use them to persue the debt (or may get a counter claim for breaching the data protection act) then they're not much use anyway

[/quote]

I'd worry less on that score, Laurence.

The DPA largely comes under civil law, except for, I think, section 55 - which deals with data taken without the data controller's permission and what you then do with it. Data freely given isn't covered by this. As redress under the DPA requires action through civil court, this means that a client would have to use their own money to pursue you through the courts - which would cost considerably more than the debt they already owe - and it's alo likely that they wouldn't get their costs back if they won, which is unlikely as they've already given you their data.

They can complain to the ICO but unless again it's under section 55, the ICO have no real sanctions to apply - they would make an assessment on wwhether you were likely or unlikely (you couldn't make this up) to have breached the DPA and would then issue advice on how not to do it again. Additionally, if you haven't registered as a data controller with the ICO - and this is a bone of contention - they'd probably just decide not to investigate any complaint in any case.

A locked desk drawer would suffice for security, provided the only people with access were those who were authorised to view the data. As it would be impossible to properly identify all such individuals, and almost as difficult to actually do anything about it in any case, I think you're safe on this score.

You're not supposed to hold data on people unnecessarily, which could cover holding data relating to a debt that haas been paid, but as these clients never pay their debts anyway, you'll be passing it onto future Webb generations till the end of time before you fall foul of this one.

Best thing to do? Photocopy their heads for your wall of shame.

Re: Proof of client's identity

Martin Jones — Mon, 20 Jun 2011 14:44:59 GMT

[quote user="Laurence Webb"]

[/quote]

Re: Proof of client's identity

Bob Russell — Mon, 20 Jun 2011 14:07:27 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

I think it's safer to up all your charges by 5% and state that a DISCOUNT will be given if paid at time of consultation-no one can stop you giving your money away-but I agree there's very little you can do about the one's who have no intention of paying,and already have a Court judgement. I always check when new clients want to register if they are on housing benefit-and if they are pack them straight off to PDSA-but that's nohelpif you have'nt a branch

Wynne

[/quote]

Just about to start another thread about buying cat food from the wholesalers. It appears that a bag of a certain dental cat food is £15.40 without any discount from one wholesaler but from ours is £18.21 but we get a wholesaler discount! This is therefore not a discount but a surcharge followed by a partial discount! Once I have had an explanation from our wholesaler I will probably get on my high horse about increasing charges then discounting them!!

Re: Proof of client's identity

J G Wray — Sat, 18 Jun 2011 11:46:27 GMT

The present Mrs Wray has to avoid chokey every working day by demanding proof of ID - to prevent money laundering exercise

1. Passport or Photo Driving Licence

plus

2. Bank or CC statement or utility bill with address on it < 3 months old

NOT mobile phone bill

JGW

Re: Proof of client's identity

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:36:14 GMT

Wynne

Re: Proof of client's identity

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 17 Jun 2011 19:47:01 GMT

[quote user="Rob Davis"]

I always thought that a license of some sort is required to charge interest. I was under the impression that it was ok to add costs incurred in administration but not interest (fairly academic difference I know!), I am happy to be corrected if others know different.

[/quote]

There is a certain rate of interest which a business may add to an invoice unpaid by the due date........ some SPVS person may be along soon to correct me, but I think it's 1.25% per month.

Unless your client is also a business, you stand little chance of actually collecting the interest though.

You can add an invoicing charge (as I do), admin charges, that sort of thing, but only enforce them if they are stated in your Terms of Business or the client has otherwise been informed before making the contract.

I also do what my accountant does: add a "5% credit charge which may be deducted if the invoice is paid by the due date." It helps to concentrate the debtor's mind, although as we all know if he or she has decided not to pay there's very little we can do to make them.

Re: Proof of client's identity

Rob Davis — Fri, 17 Jun 2011 19:22:29 GMT

Re: Proof of client's identity

Laurence Webb — Fri, 17 Jun 2011 12:06:34 GMT

Say it as you see it Martin. Don't hold back on my account

What sort of interest rates do you think resonable for non-payers? On consideration a bank's SVR seems too low so I was thinking around 2% per month, which isn't that far off a credit card fee - we don't want to be cheaper than paying it off on a credit card otherwise there's no incentive.

Re: Proof of client's identity

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:53:36 GMT

We would never allow anyone other than a well established client to pay in installments and even then it's fraught with risk, a high proportion default but I make them pay at least 50% up front, so at least costs are covered, and the rest within one month. If they can't afford to pay you this month they won't be able to next either. Otherwise it is not worth the hassle and they're hardly going to be a loss to the practice. I'd rather charge them a bit less to start with or just do less of a work-up and then the genuine ones are grateful and go out of there way to settle up in full. The ones that really piss me off are not those that ask at the start but those who say as they come to pay the bill that they can't pay it all at once then sometimes we don't have a choice. All new clients fill in a registration form on which is printed our terms and conditions as they are on the consent forms. If they look at all dodgy I give an estimated cost and ask if they have the money to pay if they don't they don't get seen. Even if they confirm they can pay, the consent form states that they must pay 50% of fees as a deposit, although I don't always enforce this. However, with Pikies I demand all the money up front. There may be a recession and perhaps we should sympathise more with people but my margins are cut to the bone so I have even less room for philanthropism than in good times and a high proportion are not genuine anyway they're just taking the piss.

Re: Proof of client's identity

Laurence Webb — Thu, 16 Jun 2011 12:44:42 GMT

It's still only a handful of clients that ask for payment installments, but they cause disproportionate annoyance! The main issue isn't whether we should demand proof of address, but whether we can legally keep photocopies of ID documents without having them encased in a big purpose built steel safe to protect the client. If we've got copies of ID but can't use them to persue the debt (or may get a counter claim for breaching the data protection act) then they're not much use anyway

Re: Proof of client's identity

Tim Cheyne — Thu, 16 Jun 2011 12:24:12 GMT

Sounds like an argument in support of the much reviled National ID Card. You could take a photocopy and signature if you decided to extend credit, but why should you for elective consultations and procedures?

Tim.

Re: Proof of client's identity

Dagmar Steele — Thu, 16 Jun 2011 11:52:05 GMT

I only agree to installments if I know the client for quite a while. I don't add interest. If one installment fails the bill goes straight to the debt agency. I take written and signed consent from the owner with address, name and signature on it upfront, enough proof to take them to court if necessary. Once the bill is with the debt agency there will be interest added. Still, there are some unpaid bills in my books - where there is no money even the debt agency can't get any. That's life, often you meet twice and may it be five years on - I won't move a finger then until the old bill is paid.

Re: Proof of client's identity

Wren — Thu, 16 Jun 2011 11:35:59 GMT

It's definitely not to be recommended but I once kept a client's passport hostage until they'd paid up. Cat caesar from one of our most dodgy areas. We obviously weren't likely to get paid so she gave me her passport (which I kept in our safe), she paid a tiny amount a week and a year later she got her passport back!

Not a lot of help to you however, and I doubt I'd have the guts to do it again!

Re: Proof of client's identity

Bob Russell — Thu, 16 Jun 2011 11:33:25 GMT

Try getting credit anywhere without having to provide at least two forms of ID, one of which needs to be photo ID? Nothing wrong with demanding this. We say we are unable to offer credit as we are not licensed to do so. Obviously we do get odd cases where we give owners a bit of leeway.

Clients are quite used to this. If they are not willing to provide ID I guarantee they are not planning to pay! Take photocopies. Yes we would add interest if a case is going to court/small claims.