Future of OV work/TB testing

Re: Future of OV work/TB testing

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 14 May 2011 10:59:23 GMT

Micheal When I was young, brucellosis eradication was at it's height. Some larger practices employed "lay bleeders " (phlebotamists ) whohad undergone a MAFF (as it was then ) approved training course I had no problem with that as it was legal (unlike allowing RANAs to do anything clinical ), but they were employed by practices who did the testing for their own farmers If it goes to tender, then whether veterinary only, or lay the work is likely to go to the big companies Mixed feelings really-as a veterinary surgeon I want tosee traditional practices flourish, as a taxpayer, I'm all for anything to cut costs

Wynne

Re: Future of OV work/TB testing

Sarah Wheeler — Fri, 13 May 2011 21:36:22 GMT

The thing farmers will miss is the support from their local vet. For example, when they have a new breakdown. I always spend a lot of time going over things with them and they always have lots of questions. The communication and assistance from our local AH office is diabolical. They are so understaffed they just cannot function anymore. Lay testers and foreign vets are not going to be much help either.

Re: Future of OV work/TB testing

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 13 May 2011 13:17:10 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]willemploy recently qualified EEC veterinarians[/quote]

C'mon - TT testing is a waste of an MRCVS. It will be lay testers before long - I am sure.

Re: Future of OV work/TB testing

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 13 May 2011 11:16:27 GMT

I've got a horrible feeling that when they put it totender,1 or 2 nationalcompanies will undercut everyone else,as they don'tneed to cover practice overheads,and willemploy recently qualified EEC veterinarians at very low rates-result fortune for the companies,peanuts for the veterinarians doing the testing, financialcatastrophe,and redundancies in traditional mixed practices

Wynne

Re: Future of OV work/TB testing

J G Wray — Fri, 13 May 2011 07:33:43 GMT

[quote user="Wren"]I am very concerned about the procurement process. Much as I despise it most of my income in the winter (and an increasing proportion in the summer) is derived from OV work. I am already a poor relation (income-wise) to the SA vets in our practice as a result and I worry about where I'll be nest year. Perhaps I should set up a national OV company and tender for the whole country?[/quote]

Dear Ms Wren,

Are you a member of BVA/BCVA? They have been wrestling with this for more than a decade and the sum total as it stands is that you will be expected to do all the above AND do the DNA tagging for free. This is BVA's idea, not AHVLA or Defra. There are some people in charge at BVA especially next year who see staying in the TB testing game as a "moral crusade". Personally, I see anyone who indulges in a "moral crusade" and gives services away for free at this time, on behalf of a science based profession and as they have it the farming industry and the public, as being a few cards short of a deck. Go to the new BVA Community site if you want to see how truly bonkers they are.

When it was put to BVA that they should set up an affiliate or subsidiary - they are constituted as a company, not a charity - to handle tendering, they go all limp wristed - they want their "moral crusade" - weird huh? The point of BVA doing this is that AHVLA/Defra refuse to discuss OV payments with smaller units. One model of this is that BVA sets up the company and the work is tendered by the company, where the shareholders are practices who receive local payments for work done and reward from shareholding. The shareholding would be initially based on the value of the work they bring to BVATenderingCo, plus any they care to buy themnsleves. An internal market, "buying" OV work from other practices would operate.

This is not a new idea. VetDrug and Centaur were set up by vets.The new bit is the BVA involvement, but that is driven by Defra/AHVLA's refusal to involve anyone else.

If you approach BVA watch out for older male colleagues patronising you. They've raised it to an art form.

JGW

Re: Future of OV work/TB testing

Busybee — Thu, 12 May 2011 19:58:14 GMT

I did my OV training this week so they're obviously still expecting the system to stay the same for the near future at least! They did say that at some point TB testing may be done by lay persons and if I remember correctly, the system is up for review in December 2011.

Re: Future of OV work/TB testing

Wren — Thu, 12 May 2011 17:06:02 GMT

I think that it's part of the reason that my income is so low. For instance on Monday morning I drove 18 miles (40 mins on tiny back roads) to test 3 highland cows. I was on the farm for about 45 mins (highland cows being highland cows....) and drove 40 mins back. The payment is £50.66 plus mileage for just over 2hrs work, then today I got to return and TT2 them (10 mins on farm, same travelling) for £0 plus mileage.

In the same period in the surgery the small animal vets can see 12 clients (10 min appts) and take roughly £30 plus VAT on average from each one = £360!!!! That's just for the TT1, it gets worse if you factor in the TT2!

The companies offering work back to local vets puts me in mind of the MHS work. We lost the contract to a lower bidder, who then subtracted their admin fees and sub-contracted the work back to us at a substantially lower rate than the one we'd tendered. Eventually it became unsustainable so we left it to the contractors.

Re: Future of OV work/TB testing

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 12 May 2011 13:43:19 GMT

DEFRA has made it very clear - there is no more money. There is inevitably going to be people bidding that want to employ their own staff and I have heard rumours of a company bidding and then offering the work back to the local vets. The problem with that idea is they will have to take a cut for admin so the vets would be testing for less.

I'd rather they trained lay testers and ran it that way at lower cost. Takes out the issues Wren has raised with a few PD's whilst you are here and issues of certain practices encroaching on other's clients.

[quote user="Wren"]Perhaps I should set up a national OV company and tender for the whole country? [/quote]

Might be the best idea you've had!

Myself I'd rather not do TT testing and know it's only a small fraction of practice income despite taking up a lot of time in winter. You end up delaying or putting off more profitable [dare I say more interesting] work to get the testing done, and I'm in a 4 year testing parish.