locum rate?

Re: locum rate?

Anthony Todd — Sat, 07 May 2011 10:08:14 GMT

One's [quote user="plantagenet"]degree of pampering, pussyfooting[/quote]

is another's [when money and not ego are involved], client care.

Re: locum rate?

vs0u — Fri, 06 May 2011 22:36:46 GMT

I normally charge 200 per day but will charge fractions of weekdays because I like finishing at 5 or 6 if possible. If it's a weekend I only charge full or half days, as they are normally a bit shorter anyway.

I never understand why OOH clinics want to pay less for a night than for a day - surely it should be more because it's night.

Re: locum rate?

Clive Ansell — Fri, 06 May 2011 19:32:39 GMT

I would never sack a practices client, they are not mine to sack, and it would be for the practice owner to decide upon his/her return. I have had occasions (particularly in one of my regular practices with an obnoxious breeder client) where I have not been happy to deal with someone, but have said you will have to discuss with X upon his return and he wil decide.

In the case in the above thread, I did not sack the client, I merely pointed out in a polite and professional way the options to a stubborn and difficult client trying to get something for nothing. One of those options has to be "go and get another opinion (price) somewhere else if you are not happy" .

Incidently, he has since left the practice because of another fee dispute (which I am not connected with). My initial instinct was correct - should have f****d him off !

Re: locum rate?

plantagenet — Fri, 06 May 2011 18:24:38 GMT

Just to clarify - i wasn't suggesting that Clive sacked the client, and I have only (infrequently) done it since the clients were mine to sack!

Re: locum rate?

Bob Russell — Fri, 06 May 2011 17:57:57 GMT

There are very few situations where I would accept a locum sacking a client (such cases would be threatening behaviour/bullying/violence etc). They are my clients and my responsibility and my income!

My head nurse would have the 'right' to do this in my absence but only because we have worked together for so long and she knows what I would find unacceptable.

I do from time to time let clients know that they will probably be happier at another practice!

Re: locum rate?

plantagenet — Fri, 06 May 2011 17:22:12 GMT

Sadly that may be because your income does not necessarily depend on it - I have found that I have to do a certain degree of pampering, pussyfooting and other things that I might rather not. You could (theoretically of course) loose half the practices client base with your direct, honest and unhypocritical attitude and still walk away with your cheque.

I would never do what I thought was blatantly wrong or unethical, and I have sacked clients on several occasions, but it is my call and mine alone in my practice to suggest that they take their custom elsewhere.

Sorry, end of long week, start of long weekend.

Re: locum rate?

Clive Ansell — Fri, 06 May 2011 17:02:25 GMT

[quote user="plantagenet"]

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]3) go elsewhere. [/quote]

I'd be a bit miffed if a locum I had employed said that

[/quote]

Too bad.

The client was a moaner, complaining about a perfectly reasonable estimate priced as per practice protocol for routine dental work which could be carried out any time. He therefore had options of; agree to, shut up and pay up, come back when boss man is back - or go elsewhere if not happy - I don't see the problem. One thing I am really not good at is pussyfooting around with and pampering idiotic clients.

Re: locum rate?

plantagenet — Fri, 06 May 2011 16:49:41 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]3) go elsewhere. [/quote]

I'd be a bit miffed if a locum I had employed said that

Re: locum rate?

Robin Grimmer — Fri, 06 May 2011 15:46:31 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

Last time I worked for one of the largest OOH providers their offered rate for a 15 hour shift was £180 (= £12.50 hour = VN rates). They will increase by negotiation at the eleventh hour.

[/quote]

I got the same for working a 6-hour day shift on a Saturday for one of the largest OOH providers! I think the rates may have been higher because it was during BSAVA.

I charge £230 per day and half day accordingly. Like you I don't do 1/3 or any other fractions. I did think about setting an hourly rate but it just makes it too complicated. I would definitely charge extra for doing a night on call. Generally all the practices I locum at don't do on-call, so a day is typically 830-7. So I think charging another half day for a night on call is perfectly reasonable.

Re: locum rate?

Anthony Todd — Mon, 02 May 2011 10:06:36 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]giving a refund[/quote]

[And a digression] The payment of all fees by the drug company after an alleged vaccine failure which wasn't. puts the vet in a nasty situation.

Re: locum rate?

Clive Ansell — Sun, 01 May 2011 10:57:22 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]refunded some of his money[/quote]

Not nice for you, bad for the practice and bad form by the management. Does that give everyone the feeling that the fees were too high in the beginning or not??

Still, at least you don't have to go back there....

[/quote]

we are still on good terms and I still work there, but in my opinion giving a refund in this instance was the wrong thing to do. In fact his fees are on the low side and I am always trying to get him to increase them.

The said client has now left the practice over another issue over fees, and I believe has left another one since - good riddance to another a*** pain. There are (too) many practices in the area so I guess he will just do the rounds until he realises we are all pretty much doing and charging the same.

Re: locum rate?

Anthony Todd — Sun, 01 May 2011 10:45:48 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]refunded some of his money[/quote]

Not nice for you, bad for the practice and bad form by the management. Does that give everyone the feeling that the fees were too high in the beginning or not??

Still, at least you don't have to go back there....

Re: locum rate?

Clive Ansell — Sun, 01 May 2011 10:39:14 GMT

[quote user="George Cooper"]

no locum, no "assistant", no VS should EVER deviate from the proscribed charging schedule devised by the practice owners.

[/quote]

However thorough a practice schedule there will always from time to time be events that are not covered by it, and as a sole charge locum one has to make the decision on the spot. I would always try to extrapolate from what is in the schedule if I can. I never knowingly undercharge, and if there is a dispute with a client over fees I would postpone the consultation or procedure until the boss is back.

I had a case last year when doing a 3 week sole charge locum; a CKCS was booked for routine dental work and a printed itemised estimate was provided as per practice protocol. The client moaned it was too expensive so I gave the options of 1) that is the fee take it or leave it, 2) rebook for when the owner returns to discuss - as it was a non urgent procedure or 3) go elsewhere. He decided to leave his dog for the procedure and begrudgingly paid for it. He complained in writing to the practice owner that it was too expensive (despite agreeing to the procedure, paying his bill, and signing consent forms) where upon he was refunded some of his money - we locums and assistants are sometimes damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Re: locum rate?

Claire Edgington — Sun, 01 May 2011 10:29:33 GMT

Thank Clive. That's what I was thinking. I'll carry on doing exactly as I am doing!

Re: locum rate?

Clive Ansell — Sun, 01 May 2011 10:26:58 GMT

I charge half my day rate for Saturday mornings which are usually 0900 - 1200/1300. One of my regulars does a 0900- 1700 shift on Saturdays for which I charge a full day. I tend to charge a half or a full day to keep it simple, I don't do 3/8, 5/16, or 0.333r days.

Re: locum rate?

Claire Edgington — Sun, 01 May 2011 10:20:06 GMT

I have just started locuming last month and I was just wondering about what locums charge for saturday work? I normally ask for 200-220 per day and I have been asking for half this for a Saturday mornings work, however some people have been saying I should charge more. What's the opinion on this?

Re: locum rate?

Mark Hedberg — Sat, 30 Apr 2011 21:13:49 GMT

[quote user="George Cooper"]

no locum, no "assistant", no VS should EVER deviate from the proscribed charging schedule devised by the practice owners.

When i last owned a practice I made a habit of studying every transaction logged, and if there was a deviation from the norm, I asked "why?", and there had better be a good reason.

With one colleague I had to resort to some real heavy tactics. When he cut the price of, say, a dental in half - perhaps for some dear old biddy, I removed that half of the fee from his wages that month. This continued for only three weeks or four. he finally understood.

[/quote]

Some practice owners are the worst offenders, Mr Cooper. ;)

Re: locum rate?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 30 Apr 2011 18:56:33 GMT

[quote user="George Cooper"]

no locum, no "assistant", no VS should EVER deviate from the proscribed charging schedule devised by the practice owners.

When i last owned a practice I made a habit of studying every transaction logged, and if there was a deviation from the norm, I asked "why?", and there had better be a good reason.

[/quote]

The problem with a locum is that you may not find out the undercharging until you've paid them. Sorry, I'm not businesslike enough to sit down immediately on return from a fine holiday in Italy and go minutely through the records of two or three weeks, while the locum hovers waiting for his/her cheque before shooting off.

By the way – and this would usually be against forum etiquette, but seeing as it's George - I hope you mean "prescribed" and not "proscribed".

Re: locum rate?

George Cooper — Sat, 30 Apr 2011 18:42:17 GMT

no locum, no "assistant", no VS should EVER deviate from the proscribed charging schedule devised by the practice owners.

When i last owned a practice I made a habit of studying every transaction logged, and if there was a deviation from the norm, I asked "why?", and there had better be a good reason.

Re: locum rate?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 30 Apr 2011 17:05:41 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

I'd rather like it in the contract that when the locum grossly undercharges the client for what's done, I claw the difference back out of the locums fee. Hmm. Not much chance of that.

[/quote]

That would be fair enough. Putting the boot on the other foot, can I keep the difference if I were to charge extra?? . Seriously though, there should be no need for a locum to undercharge, assuming you have clear charging structures and a practice protocol manual.

[/quote]

I have clear charging structures and a practice manual and I take some trouble to supply the locum with a Price Guide that incorporates any recent notes or temporary quirks. Nonetheless too often they get it hopelessly wrong (and never in my favour!). I think this may be partly because they have only worked in large practices where the receptionists would enter the details on computer and price it up and the locum did not have to think about it. But we did once have a mad Canadian, who had owned his own multi-vet practice in Canada: I'm told he ignored the price guide, translated everything into Canadian dollars and back again and then guessed; I know he gave ridiculously high estimates for procedures (so they didn't get done), and referred almost everything; he also moaned directly to the clients about the "lack of facilities" at my practice because he couldn't be bothered to try slightly different equipment or a slightly different way of doing things.

Re: locum rate?

Cat Henstridge — Sat, 30 Apr 2011 15:30:27 GMT

I charge £200/day + VAT for my locuming and I do occasionally think I should be putting it up as a lot of locums seem to be more expensive! However, like Clive, most of my work is regular jobs for a small number of clinics, so I never feel I can ask for more!

As for OOH, I haven't done any since I started but I would probably ask something around £50 per night plus a call out of £20 but I am just plucking these figures out of the air.

I can understand employers reticence about locums, the standard does seem to be very variable but the good ones are worth paying for!

Cat

Re: locum rate?

Clive Ansell — Sat, 30 Apr 2011 11:49:39 GMT

80% of my work is with a group of regular practices, therefore there is good continuity and I know the staff and clients and vice versa and always tend to be fairly busy. I accept It is more difficult where a locum isn't known.

Re: locum rate?

Anthony Todd — Sat, 30 Apr 2011 00:27:53 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Again, if reception staff are not on side one is snookered at the onset.[/quote]

But IMHO the opposite is usually true; the locum books and does much less than the regular staff. Can produce copious data if needs must.

But I do admit that the lay staff will not encourage locum procedures, at least until they have seem them work, because they will probably do things differently, maybe better, maybe worse, certainly differently.

Re: locum rate?

Clive Ansell — Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:56:26 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]I have had some really great locums over the years, and one or two not so good. [/quote]

Everytime we analyse locum performance via the parameters of percentage procedures they are almost all below the lowest of full time staff.

Now this is not money, this is a measure of best care. ** Explained in my post in "financial monitoring".

When we measure turnover most locums are below 50% of permanent staff. This is not solely due to the VS, in fairness, because the staff tend not to book ops. for locums until they can assess the locum's ability [see quote].

[/quote]

I think locums will often take less revenue than the regular staff, but in my case I doubt it is 50% less. Often clients will put off a non urgent appointment or procedure until the regular is back, certainly in smaller practices where they are used to seeing the same vet. Also, however good or not they are, a practice owner is going to be more enthusiastic and focused about revenue generation than any locum will be.

I have also noticed in many practices that reception staff will apologise for Mr X not being there and say "we only have a locum", or "would you rather wait until Mr X is back", or "Mr X is only away for the week and will be back Monday" - not really the fault of the locum if reception are putting people off. I have had many cases where I have seen a patient and recommended a dental for example, but when the client goes to book it in at reception they are greeted with "wouldn't you like Mr X to do it next week?" Again, if reception staff are not on side one is snookered at the onset.

Re: locum rate?

Clive Ansell — Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:09:00 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]My standard rates are between £220 and £250 per day plus VAT, depending on location, work load, working hours etc. For being on call and taking the phones off the premises I would charge 1/2 the daily rate, or a smaller amount (£40 or £50) plus a share of each OOH case seen. OOH on the premises charged at daily rate. It never ceases to amaze me that some practices expect locums to be on call for £0![/quote]

I'm not knocking Clive or anyone else, but for sole charge of a singlehanded practice, to me the so much per day means so much per 24 hours. I really can't grasp the notion of quoting so much per day but then adding some more for being on call at night. I agree that if you actually get any work to do at night you deserve extra: I'd say that whatever premium is charged to the client for the job being OOH, the locum gets to keep. And, that reminds me, the locum is welcome to live in my house free of charge (and we'll stock the refrigerator up before we go).

[/quote]

As almost all of my work does not involve on call (Last on call was January 2010) my rates relate to a standard veterinary day of around 0900 -1900, longer days and on call are by negotiation and of course all is agreed in advance so there is no confusion. provided accommodation is usually part of a locums package when it is needed, again I would always negotiate and agree all terms in advance. Fridge stocked with booze a definite bonus though

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

I'd rather like it in the contract that when the locum grossly undercharges the client for what's done, I claw the difference back out of the locums fee. Hmm. Not much chance of that.

[/quote]