Leaving on time

Re: Leaving on time

Jon Bray — Sat, 12 Mar 2011 16:46:07 GMT

I presume you mean "away from" - in which case I agree. That said these days grandparents may also both work away from home during the day.

Re: Leaving on time

Peter Ding — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 17:51:32 GMT

Raising 4 boys (don't ask) we found it essential to live with my wife's mum in her farmhouse, so as not to make us virtually unemployable.

A godsend in far more ways than i can remember. I appreciate that option isn't available to all but imho the move towards a nuclear family is responsible for a lot more of society's problems than is generally acknowledged.

Re: Leaving on time

Mark Holmes — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 14:36:58 GMT

[quote user="Peter Ding"]

There was a time when aunties, grandparents, neighbours and friends would step in in such circumstances but that seems less common now.

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People often live alot further from extended family these days, it was one of the reasons for moving back to Aberdeenshire, at the time of "the great sickness" we were 6.5 hrs from one family and 2 hrs from the other.

Re: Leaving on time

Peter Ding — Fri, 11 Mar 2011 14:00:32 GMT

Do others take time off out of their holiday allowance when they are caring for children who are sick or covering for spouses/child carers who are sick?

Do they take it as paid leave or unpaid leave or expect the employer to merely count it as "off sick"?

There was a time when aunties, grandparents, neighbours and friends would step in in such circumstances but that seems less common now.

Is it perhaps one reason why more and more employers are reducing sickness associated benefits to that of the SSP scheme.

We're small and operate a scheme where everybody covers for each other in such circumstances without asking for overtime rates. Quid pro quo. Favours are generally returned over time. It works but the young and single tend to get the raw end of the deal as they get put upon more often.

When all else fails we have an informal (probably illegal) ad hoc creche at work!

Re: Leaving on time

Camilla Edwards — Wed, 09 Mar 2011 14:18:53 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]

A couple of years ago we had winter vomiting bug go through our house, I was off work 1) when I was ill, 2)when my wife was ill (so I could look after the children as it wasn't the childminders day), 3)when the child was ill (as he couldn't go to the childminder) 4)when the child minder was ill (So my wife could go to work. She worked for the NHS and had a full day of clinics with no cover)

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I always feel terrible if I have to take time off work because my child is ill. Fortunately it hasn't happenned that often. My husband and I do share that responsibility though, so if she is ill on a Monday I know it's me who has to reschedule work, if a Tuesday it's my husband's responsibility. Obviously sometimes, there's a really important meeting or something, so we juggle it. But we try to prepare for it in a fair way!

Re: Leaving on time

Mark Holmes — Wed, 09 Mar 2011 10:21:02 GMT

Re: Leaving on time

Gina Dungworth — Wed, 09 Mar 2011 10:11:13 GMT

[quote user="Penny Copeland"]

This touches on a pet topic of mine. (Have 3 kids so i do know about being a parent).I think it is so unfair that if a child is sick , the MOTHER is always the one who has to leave work to pick them up! Why are the dad's never called away from work???? Being an employer this frustrates the hell out of me as the female employees are just as essential as the males. Being a profession with more female nurses, receptionists etc than males ....I would like the dads who work somewhere else to leave their jobs once in a while!

Penny

[/quote]

Until recently I worked with a bloke who was always the one called away when a parent was required, as far as I could tell. But I'm in industry rather than practice and my colleague's wife worked for the NHS. Maybe that's what made the difference?

Re: Leaving on time

Jon Bray — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 19:44:41 GMT

As a related issue, I note that there is a big difference between vets and other professions. If I want an appointment at my doctor's for a non-urgent matter the first one is likely to be several days' away - I've been fortunate enough not to have to see them urgently but I suspect I would likely have to go to A&E if everything was booked. As I understand it, many dentists have a policy that if you are late for your appointment then it needs to be rebooked - and there may be a charge for the missed appointment. Clients should thus be used to this concept, so why do we insist on fitting everything in?

IMHO a vaccination should be put off until the next available slot. An obviously unwell animal should of course be seen but with some kind of emergency surcharge to discourage people abusing the system (even if the vet involved has the authority to waive this surcharge in the case of something which really has just occurred, rather than the dog which has been vomiting for three weeks and has just done a particularly impressive one on a rug the owner liked).

The counter argument will presumably be that in an open market one can't turn work away. However I would argue that clients who are consistently kept waiting in a busy waiting room or feel that the vet was in a rush to get them out of the door are unlikely to become/stay loyal. Such a system should be fairly easy to explain in a welcome letter in terms that make it clear that the practice feels that this way they can provide the best possible service.

Re: Leaving on time

Jon Bray — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 19:21:27 GMT

How about (g) stay, knowing that he has previously explained to his children that sometimes Daddy has to work a bit late to help the poor little fluffy animals?

Re: Leaving on time

Penny Copeland — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 18:42:58 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

I think that now most young veterinary surgeons (those of an age likely to have children who need care ) are female, one of the things that most annoys the rest of the profession is that even in these suppposedly equal times it is the mother (veterinary surgeon ) who expects her employer to adjust working practices to accomodate child-care demands rather than the father's employer taking 50% of the inconvenience

Wynne

[/quote]This touches on a pet topic of mine. (Have 3 kids so i do know about being a parent).I think it is so unfair that if a child is sick , the MOTHER is always the one who has to leave work to pick them up! Why are the dad's never called away from work???? Being an employer this frustrates the hell out of me as the female employees are just as essential as the males. Being a profession with more female nurses, receptionists etc than males ....I would like the dads who work somewhere else to leave their jobs once in a while!

to go back to the thread -sorry haven't read it all -I would find it too stressfull for myself to be commited to the 6pm pickup when the nursery closes so instead have used childminders /later a nanny when affordable. NOT saying the opening vet should have stayed behind but just that it must be incredibly stressful to have this deadline- which i know is unmissable- hanging over you.

Penny

Re: Leaving on time

Wren — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:43:46 GMT

Starting on time is my bugbear. We have an open surgery every morning starting at 9am which is usually covered by two SA vets one of which is always one of the partners. Inevitably they turn up at 9.05am, make a coffee, check the in-patients then start the surgery. Our doors open at 8.30am so some clients have already waited half an hour by 9am alone.

I don't have to go in to the surgery first thing (ambulatory vet so usually drive to my first call straight from home) but if I have to cover the open surgery when someone is on holiday I in the building for 8.30am at the latest which gives me time to have a cup of tea, make some phone calls and see the first client at 9am. I do this because it makes life more pleasant for me, let alone for my clients.

Also if I can get to work on time, having mucked out 3 horses then ridden one for an owner which is a 20min drive away, surely anyone can?

Re: Leaving on time

Mark Hedberg — Sun, 06 Mar 2011 16:31:47 GMT

Strange…my post is squeezed in between your paragraphs. I must be having a technophobe day…

Re: Leaving on time

Mark Hedberg — Sun, 06 Mar 2011 16:25:26 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]Obviously cat unblocking is an urgent issue[/quote]

Sorry, I'm misunderstood again....

My point is that it is better to start earlier in the evening [whilst doing nothing] than starting around the start time [but actually 10 minutes late].

Then, if you do get an emergency unblock etc. you are not at least 20 minutes behind already.

Oh, I forgot the other thing; 5.10 appointment arrives at 4.50 but will not be seen under any circumstances until 5.10.00, even though the vet is there, twiddling thumbs or arranging evening social events, and the 5.00 doesn't arrive 'til 5.15........ Reason given is "to teach the clients to be on time"; fat chance!!

No, i follow you; i was just trying to troubleshoot from long distance just like you're not supposed to. ;) i agree with seeing clients asap… teaching them a lesson? They hardly ever follow my advice on diet and exercise, why would they take a hint on appointmrnts? :)

Keeping people waiting is rude and almost always unnecessary.

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Re: Leaving on time

Kate Richardson — Sun, 06 Mar 2011 15:13:02 GMT

[quote user="Gareth Dowdeswell"]tho most clients complain to reception rather than the vet.[/quote]

That's half the problem, they complain to reception who then come and ask us if we can see them as they have waited for a 'long' time so they don't have to get the grief- do receptionists not get the concept of an appointment system either? I appreciate very much that receptionists usually bear the brunt of any client frustration, and I get really annoyed when clients are abusive to them then sweet as pie to the vet! but unfortunately isn't that just part of the job? Or am I being unfair?

Re: Leaving on time

Alan Tevendale — Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:07:34 GMT

Definately agree that clients should be seen in the order of their booking presuming they don't turn up late. We're fortunate that as a mixed practice we often have a 'spare' vet meant to be on LA - if they aren't too busy with lab work etc. This means that we're often able to fit in late/early appointments. Having said that if someone turns up early and we aren't able to see them early then as I say to the nurses - it's called a waiting room for a reason.

Re: Leaving on time

Gareth Dowdeswell — Sun, 06 Mar 2011 12:20:17 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]

One situation I am always not sure what to do is when a client arrives early, say at 4.55, for 5.15pm appointment. Should you see that client as they are there (if you are free to do so), but in the knowledge then that if your 5.00pm appointment turns up on time, you are likely to keep them waiting. But if you don't see 5.15 appointment until 5.15 they complain they had to wait for ages???

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Lucky you with your 15min appointments!

I'd make them wait because it's not fair to make the 5pm appointment wait if 5pm arrives on time - if by say 5.05 5pm hasn't turned up then I'd see the 5.15 appointment. If the 5.15pm appointment complained about the wait I'd probably politely point out when their appointment was - tho most clients complain to reception rather than the vet.

Our PMS shows how long clients have been waiting - I've had long arguements with one of the nurses (cos their appointments sometimes run late too!) as she's of the opinion client waiting longest should be seen first - I think this makes the appointment system pointless.

Re: Leaving on time

bob lehner — Sun, 06 Mar 2011 11:35:07 GMT

I think it is more polite to see the 5.00 pm appt on time. If people choose to turn up way too early then they can't really complain about being kept waiting until their appointed time if other people are going to be inconvenienced by squeezing them in earlier.

I agree that the v.s. who is a persistent late starter/slope-off-early merchant is a menace and can quickly demoralise the whole team, especially the reception staff who have to take the flack from disgruntled clients.

Re: Leaving on time

Kate Richardson — Sun, 06 Mar 2011 11:13:30 GMT

Re: Leaving on time

Anthony Todd — Sun, 06 Mar 2011 10:12:13 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]Obviously cat unblocking is an urgent issue[/quote]

Sorry, I'm misunderstood again....

My point is that it is better to start earlier in the evening [whilst doing nothing] than starting around the start time [but actually 10 minutes late].

Then, if you do get an emergency unblock etc. you are not at least 20 minutes behind already.

Keeping people waiting is rude and almost always unnecessary.

Re: Leaving on time

Mark Hedberg — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 22:06:13 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]It's the start time that's important.[/quote]

I have lost count of the times I have suggested booking back when there are only a couple of appointments left, and it's only lunchtime!!

But no, hang around til 17.00.00 then ring a client ,then find a pen, then do a prescription requested at 14.20.36, then see the first appointment at a fashionable [vets are busy, saving lives etc.] 17.12.10 and try and fit the 16.45.12 walk-in later, 'cos appointments take priority.

By 19.25.10 the nurses and vet are cranky from hypoglycaemia and dehydration [due to effects of caffeine intake during the 2 coffee breaks...] the 18.10's car has been clamped and he's just so delighted at 18.45.15 and there's a cat to unblock now!

[/quote]

Interesting. How are consultations treated - are they considered important by practice staff, or are they not something the staff generally enjoys? (If i'm asking intrusive questions I apologize - just curious to see if it's something that can be helped.)

Obviously cat unblocking is an urgent issue; just that if nonessential things are used to delay the start of consults; well that's a time management issue. I agree that strict schedules don't work well with vet work; I do think that we vets don't budget our time as effectively as we could. (and yes, I mean me, too. :) )

Re: Leaving on time

Anthony Todd — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 09:40:14 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]It's the start time that's important.[/quote]

I have lost count of the times I have suggested booking back when there are only a couple of appointments left, and it's only lunchtime!!

Re: Leaving on time

salome2001 — Fri, 04 Mar 2011 23:55:00 GMT

I've often wondered where I could get one of Hermione Granger's "Time Turners" so that I could do those double/ triple booked appointments. Practice managers seem to think they are a dime a dozen....

Re: Leaving on time

Bob Russell — Mon, 28 Feb 2011 15:32:30 GMT

Not sure if I worked for the same Mr Lazybeggar many years ago? He would come in, see a couple of patients then head home for a bath!!! Also barely relevant but I remember how frustrating it was.

Re: Leaving on time

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 26 Feb 2011 21:45:37 GMT

[quote user="Vet2Vet"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Vet2Vet"] If busy reception will put extras in , usually double book or at the end[/quote]

I'm probably being very stupid, but how exactly does that help?

[/quote] I geuss it means everybody who rings and wants to be seen is accomadated . Its just a fact of life in most practices . People are squeezed in . However , it doesn't help with leaving on time . I find its better to be realistic about these things and if I do get out on time I regard it as a bonus .

[/quote]

Yes of course, but I don't see the point of double booking or squeezing people into the middle. That just means that if every client gets the proper attention, you run later and later and the waiting clients get more and more upset.

A decent receptionist points out that things are really busy, and suggests an appointment another day, but if the client is sure they want to be seen today and all the appointment slots in the book are used up, you go on making appointments of the same length, on and on, and whoever is on late finish sees them. Like most of us here, I have in the past stayed on past my finish time and helped out, if I had nothing else I needed to do, but the vet on duty would have no grounds for complaint if I didn't stay.

Small barely-relevant anecdote. In one practice where I was employed, evening surgeries were open and really busy. There would always be two vets on, to continue till everyone was seen. However, both assistants knew that if they were on with Mr. Lazybeggar, a partner, then Mr. L. would beggar off home whenever he thought he had done enough, even on a night when he was on duty. The assistants knew that if they admitted something that evening for a procedure that could not wait then they would end up doing it themselves, even though not on duty. The only hope was to try and spot in advance what was likely to need some procedure urgently and to so manipulate the appointments (by deliberately being slow, perhaps, or "accidentally" calling the wrong client in) so that Mr. L. saw the problem one. This manoeuvre was difficult and often failed.

Re: Leaving on time

Mark Hedberg — Sat, 26 Feb 2011 20:44:58 GMT

The previous practice I worked at (outside the UK) had massive problems with on-time performance. If you're having a problem with this, definitely sort it. It's going to just get worse and worse. I got really tired of being the only one there first thing. I left after a while. (for this and other reasons.)

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

After umpteen posts no one has mentioned the bigger pachyderm in the room..

It's the start time that's important. by that I mean the actual time, to the minute, you hear "And what is the problem?"

That's after "the traffic was terrible", "my child was sick", "just got to ring my boyfriend/girlfriend/partner", "must have a coffee" ,"ring this client" etc. etc.

Start on time, or dare I even breath it,start when the first punter walks in and everything is on time from then on!!

[/quote]