Accountants!

Re: Accountants!

Mark Hedberg — Sun, 05 Dec 2010 15:41:29 GMT

Many thanks!

Re: Accountants!

Andrew Henfrey — Sun, 05 Dec 2010 11:23:28 GMT

We are a 2 full-time primary care small animal vets, one part time vet and a dermatology referral consultant (8-12 hours weekly). Maximum preferred size relates to being in a single location (I've done the multi-branch practice and I found a lot of time is wasted/consumed travelling) and keeping it so client continuity is good.

Andrew

Re: Accountants!

Mark Hedberg — Sun, 05 Dec 2010 09:06:07 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Henfrey"]

Hi Mark

we were advised to incorporate two years ago. Entrepreneur's Capital Gains Tax was 10%, and was potentially under threat at the time, and our practice was at our maximum preferred size, hence at our largest goodwill figure. Overall, although we paid CGT up front , we will now save in income tax much more over the next 4-5 years. HMRC tend to dispute valuations in goodwill but John Sower at Bertam Kidson was experienced at the tactics and we ended up with the full valuation.

The whole process has probably saved us in the region of 10x our accountant's fees, and we are currently unaffected by Government increases in personal taxation. In fact the reduction in Corporation Tax planned will further help us.

The main thing I think is have an accountant you trust who is working mainly with vets. We trusted ours and it has worked brilliantly.

Andrew

[/quote]

Thank you, that's been very useful! If I'm not being too personal, what exactly was "maximum preferred size?"

Re: Accountants!

Mark Hedberg — Sun, 05 Dec 2010 09:03:54 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

There's an article in the most recent VBJ - was reading it this AM!

[/quote]

Thanks! Will definitely give it a read!

Re: Accountants!

Andrew Henfrey — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 23:02:22 GMT

Hi Mark

The main thing I think is have an accountant you trust who is working mainly with vets. We trusted ours and it has worked brilliantly.

Andrew

Re: Accountants!

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 22:06:44 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]

I apologize if this is derailing the topic slightly; could you tell us some of the signs that incorporation was the right choice for you? I am strongly suspecting the same may be applicable to the practice I work at, would be interested in some of your thoughts.

Thanks,

Mark

[/quote]

There's an article in the most recent VBJ - was reading it this AM!

Re: Accountants!

Mark Hedberg — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 22:03:45 GMT

Thanks,

Mark

Re: Accountants!

Andrew Henfrey — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 17:36:15 GMT

We use Bertram Kidson in Wolverhampton. They are vet specialists with about 200 vet practices (I think). They produce an inter-practice comparison each year with regional separation also. John Sower comes and sees us once a year to go through any issues and how to tax plan, etc. They also do our payroll.

His advice to incorporate two years ago was spot-on and has saved lots. They took us through the process of incorporation from mid February to being ltd in less than 6 weeks to maximise the benefit and also negotiated with HMRC on the goodwill valuation which predictably HMRC thought should be less.

All-in-all great service and good advice

Re: Accountants!

Bob Russell — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 10:19:10 GMT

We had a lousy practice manager who could not organise a p**s up in a brewery but was very good at pulling the wool over our eyes. She did a lot of damage to the practice both with moral but also by not doing what she was supposed to do. Our accountants at that stage (Hazelwoods) appeared to know she was not doing the job but failed to let me know that they were aware of it.

We paid a not insignificant monthly amount and to be quite honest about it did not see any benefit in return. I do not blame them entirely as I know just how good the ex-practice manager was at manipulation and misinformation.

Their fee structure seems extreme for a small practice such as ours. The combination of their fees, practice manager wages and a useless local accountant we used to try to sort out the mess means we have wasted well over £10000 in a year on book-keeping and accountants and at the end of it things were in such a state that we had the books done again from scratch!

We have a very good book-keeper now (I checked references very thoroughly this time!!!) so the books are in good order. I just need an accountant to do the end of year and give tax advice at a fair rate.

I am a sole trader so no limited company complications!!!

Re: Accountants!

karen jones — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 22:07:40 GMT

we have been considering changing to a veterinary accountant rather than our local one in the town who seems rather clueless. Hazlewoods seems to be one of market leaders and I've heard them talk at a SPVS meeting. Are they worth seeing or are there better around?

Re: Accountants!

Gerry Henry — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 17:47:09 GMT

Bob I've PMed you re accountants. Are you in the FSB? Good idea as they will pay the cost of any HMRC inquiry should you be unlucky enough to get one.

Re: Accountants!

Bob Russell — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 17:42:13 GMT

£1000 is a hell of a lot less than £3000. They have more disclaimers than you would believe so the liability stays with me. Value for money is what I look for.

Re: Accountants!

Gerry Henry — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 17:40:09 GMT

Er .... because we have 100K + worth of kit sitting there to be paid for and they have a PC.

Re: Accountants!

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 17:35:28 GMT

Well, just to be a devil's advocate, a GDV is a morning's work too, why do vets charge a thousand quid for it? ;)

Skilled work costs money. Preparing taxes, going over all your figures to ensure you entered them into sage correctly, insurance if you sue them for screwing up, overhead…it does add up, i'm sure.

Re: Accountants!

Bob Russell — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 12:53:34 GMT

I am a sole charge practice and the books are accurately entered on Sage. They need to work out depreciation, tax relief (bugger all) etc. Not rocket science. At this price it is better for me not to claim the few allowances I am entitled too!!!

Getting a few quotes but I cannot see this is much more than a mornings work. I wish I could get £6000 per day!!

Re: Accountants!

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 12:47:27 GMT

I pay my accountant about £1,500 for a sole charge practice so I don't think £3000 is bad if there's more work involved. The problem I see is that you're more likely to risk interest from HMIT if you don't have 'officially prepared' accounts to submit with your return in which case £3K may be a small price to pay!

Re: Accountants!

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 12:42:16 GMT

Ask themif they guarantee you will save their fee in taxes. Might help separate the sheep from the goats.