The great debate: compulsory PSS

Re: The great debate: compulsory PSS

Rob Reid — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 10:07:49 GMT

[quote user="Richard Carter"]Has there been any serious study by anyone, RCVS or independent, which has demonstrated that the gold plating is urgently needed or is it just nice to have?[/quote]

If you asked the general public if they would:

(a) like their vet practice to have a shiny gold plate out front, the meaning of which they are not really sure about

(b) like to know that their vet has kept up to date with current developments in their field and that this continuing education has been carefully regulated, recorded and monitored

I wonder what the results of that survey would be.

You only have to watch programmes like Rogue Traders to know that in other professions or trades, regulation by an approved body can actually mean very little with regards to the quality of work that is done. Unfortunately the (Daily Mail reading) public may just perceive the PSS in the same way.....

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Whether compulsory PSS contains a requirement for compulsory CPD is irrelevant to me as it is not practical for me to apply for PSS anytime too soon but as I've said, not having a shiny practice doesn't make me a lesser vet, not attending appropriate CPD would. [/quote]

Well said.

Re: The great debate: compulsory PSS

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:43:11 GMT

[quote user="Richard Stephenson"]

Could I just gently point out that CPD is already compulsory see page 9 of the Guide to Professional Conduct Part 1 D paragraphs 4 - 7.

What the College is unable to do is to make it a compulsory requirement for annual renewal of registration (as that requires an Act of Parliament). It is however under the terms of the GtPC compulsory and failure to do it could (in theory) result in charges being brought before the disciplinary committee. A more likely scenario is that failure to do CPD comes to light when another complaint is investigated and is added onto the charges.

[/quote]

Notwithstanding, subsequent replies to this post, having a look at someone's CPD record when they've been a naughty boy is hardly adequate policing given we accept CPD is not compulsory by statute. The vast majority of incompetant vets get away with inadequate standards of care because they're never reported. So to qualify my original post: CPD should be compulsory and appropriate to the branch of practice in which the member spends the majority of his time and should be policed by annual inspection of authenticated records and tested by examination every 5 years - this need not be onerous and time consuming, it can't be beyond the wit of man to organise examination on-line and in an individual's own time. Whether compulsory PSS contains a requirement for compulsory CPD is irrelevant to me as it is not practical for me to apply for PSS anytime too soon but as I've said, not having a shiny practice doesn't make me a lesser vet, not attending appropriate CPD would.

Re: The great debate: compulsory PSS

Richard Carter — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:00:22 GMT

Has there been any serious study by anyone, RCVS or independent, which has demonstrated that the gold plating is urgently needed or is it just nice to have? Having stupid surveys that ask clients if they want their pets to have gloved / gowned / supervised vets is a bit like demanding everyone has to drive a merc and anything less is unsafe/ unprofessional then happily avoiding any requirement to prove that the alternate service is in fact dangerous, sub standard etc. I have a qualification, I carry the can of my decisions...

Re: The great debate: compulsory PSS

J G Wray — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:56:09 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Never mind that, they are trying to sneak a compulsory PSS in by the back door.[/quote]

I am as unhappy about the loathsome concept of RCVS compelling me to run my business according to their rules as anyone from North Wales. RCVS is a band of profoundly inadequately qualified people, when it comes to this. There has never been a remit to regulate the business of veterinary practice, only the individual and a new VSA would be required, not a Statutory instrument. I am therefore more relaxed about the current situation.

In other words, I don't read the Daily Mail.

JGW

Re: The great debate: compulsory PSS

Heather Toft — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 02:18:06 GMT

Oh dear, it seems I may not be far wrong... I haven't read this before:

http://www.rcvs.org.uk/shared_asp_files/uploadedfiles/D4DBCFE2-1191-4DD6-8583-C17A8F0D7085_CPD-theFuture-PositionPaper.pdf

Are they going to ask me questions about the trade stands I walked round at BSAVA?

Looks like it will need new VSA for any of this to happen though, and the government appear to be otherwise pre-occupied.

Re: The great debate: compulsory PSS

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 01:47:39 GMT

Well, how do vets document the "self study" thing anyway?

Re: The great debate: compulsory PSS

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 00:25:26 GMT

[quote user="Heather Toft"]

Michael, whether you should be allowed to treat cats has always been up for debate....

[/quote]

Cooking fats........

Re: The great debate: compulsory PSS

Heather Toft — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 00:13:22 GMT

Michael, whether you should be allowed to treat cats has always been up for debate....

Re: The great debate: compulsory PSS

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 23:25:48 GMT

[quote user="Heather Toft"]

Part of the problem is that it's entirely possible to comply with the RCVS CPD requirements without keeping up to date with vast areas of veterinary medicine, or addressing any of your weaknesses as a practitioner.

Studying for a sheep certificate would fulfill all my required hours, but should I be allowed to continue to work in mixed practice if I haven't done any small animal or equine CPD? (Incidentally, I have, out of my own interest, but it's not required of me).

Should there be compulsary topics for CPD, or continual reassessment of core skills? Who would decide the topics and police it? And would our retention fees increase to fund the policing? [/quote]

Heather what a brilliant post, but what an awful thought!

The principals of the A modules could apply to any area of practice, even if you are emphasising sheep. Veterinary medicine is such a broad subject that I'm not sure that a general practitioner has to be 100% up to date in all their areas of practice so long as they know their limitations and can seek advice/referral where necessary. I think that's more important than trying to be all knowing?

As I do mostly large animal work that's where almost all my CPD is concentrated, should I be allowed to treat a dog or cat? mmm. Do CPD in rough proportion to your workload? I think the vague guidance is fine here, as so long as you are doing CPD you are demonstrating that you're growing professionally.

[quote user="cinweb"]

The recommended minimum CPD is 105 hours over three years with an average of 35 hours per year, does it mean it's compulsory to meet 35 hours per year, or can it also be 40, 30, 35 hours...etc

[/quote]

You are supposed to do an average of 35 hours per year, but by averaging it over 3 years means that if you spent a week on a course one year doing hours over the 35 you can bank them against a few less hours [should you so wish] another year. I think it's more realistic than saying that 35 hours MUST be done per calendar year - courses don't often work like that. I have just got back from a mastitis course booked over a year ago.

Re: The great debate: compulsory PSS

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 22:57:20 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Mellor"]

CPD is compulsory in the pss so maybe they are just trying to sneak compulsory cpd through by the back door. kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

[/quote]

Never mind that, they are trying to sneak a compulsory PSS in by the back door.

Re: The great debate: compulsory PSS

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 22:54:27 GMT

[quote user="Jonathan Wray"]

Could I gently point out, that CPD is not compulsory under the VSA 1966, any more than providing 24 hour cover is?

Yup, there's a stunner.

The very last thing RCVS is wishing for is is for someone to challenge the legal limits of their authority.

[/quote]

Mr Wray is quite right.

On the other hand, adequate continuing professional self-education is effectively compulsory, because it is a professional obligation. The Guide (guide) to Professional Conduct (professional conduct) handily points that out.

Re: The great debate: compulsory PSS

J G Wray — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 22:20:01 GMT

[quote user="Richard Stephenson"]Could I just gently point out that CPD is already compulsory see page 9 of the Guide to Professional Conduct Part 1 D paragraphs 4 - 7.[/quote]

'Ere we go

Could I gently point out, that CPD is not compulsory under the VSA 1966, any more than providing 24 hour cover is?

Yup, there's a stunner.

The very last thing RCVS is wishing for is is for someone to challenge the legal limits of their authority. It is not a given that anyone with an uncomplicated case hinging on failure to undertake CPD, for instance, would be guilty of serious professional misconduct. If however, they were found guilty on other grounds then failure to undertake CPD might count against them - see Mr McMahon in terms of determination of sentence.

RCVS will never differentiate between what is in the GtPC backed by Statute and what is in the GtPC by "common consent", i.e. the agreement of those in practice. This is wrong and when RCVS have to the profession's respect for them will grow, but they can't see it that way.

JGW

Re: The great debate: compulsory PSS

Heather Toft — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:41:54 GMT

Should there be compulsary topics for CPD, or continual reassessment of core skills? Who would decide the topics and police it? And would our retention fees increase to fund the policing?

Re: The great debate: compulsory PSS

Cinzia Gandini — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:15:03 GMT

The recommended minimum CPD is 105 hours over three years with an average of 35 hours per year, does it mean it's compulsory to meet 35 hours per year, or can it also be 40, 30, 35 hours...etc

Re: The great debate: compulsory PSS

Richard Stephenson — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 20:06:18 GMT

Could I just gently point out that CPD is already compulsory see page 9 of the Guide to Professional Conduct Part 1 D paragraphs 4 - 7.

Hope that helps the debate.

Yours,

Richard Stephenson

Re: The great debate: compulsory PSS

stephen sargent — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 18:36:30 GMT

[quote user="Rob Reid"]not just filling up their hours by 'reading' journals and attending Mickey Mouse meetings[/quote]

What are we meant to 'read' if not journals? I haven't been to any meetings run by Mickey Mouse.

Re: The great debate: compulsory PSS

Rob Reid — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 17:52:55 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]It is my opinion that compulsory CPD should come a long time before compuslory practice standards.[/quote]

Absolutely agree. Keeping tabs on CPD wouldn't be a problem (all the RCVS need to do is ask for everyones record cards each year.) The problem would be making sure that practitioners are doing worthwhile CPD and not just filling up their hours by 'reading' journals and attending Mickey Mouse meetings. I think that doctors have a more closely regulated system so maybe that would be a template on which to start?

As far as the PSS goes the concept is a good idea, but the public still seem to be blissfully unaware of the implications and meaning of it all.

Re: The great debate: compulsory PSS

Andrew Mellor — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 17:24:14 GMT

CPD is compulsory in the pss so maybe they are just trying to sneak compulsory cpd through by the back door. kill 2 birds with 1 stone.