I could, but should I have to?

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Peter Ding — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 16:22:14 GMT

Well done indeed...

Just for the sake of completeness, what was the client's reaction to being told that only Saturday was possible (if absolutely necessary).

Was he obviously dissatisfied or was he willing to accept it. ?

As far as your mode of working advice the only thing i would say is that one should always makes sure a client is aware each time you have bent over backwards to assist them! The end result of not doing so is being grossly taken for granted and they come to expect or even demand it.

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 15:28:59 GMT

I would say "Well done " I always thought that a score > 65% meant youwere ready to move upa level !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wynne

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Wren — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:46:45 GMT

[quote user="Peter Ding"]

Reading the original post again it would appear that neither the client nor his boss were actually made aware of the relevant details,.............so it may well have been a post made with the employee just worried that he might end up being put upon...

[/quote]

The client was aware that Sunday would be problematic, but I had told him that I was prepared to do Saturday if absolutely necessary. We're a mixed practice and there are only two of us with the relevant qualifications for export. The other qualified person is one of the two partners but he'd gone to Cheltenham for the week so was unavailable.

I honestly don't know the exact wording of my contract, but will dig it out for a look. I hadn't discussed the situation with the remaining partner as I was waiting to see how the situation evolved and he wouldn't have been much help anyway as he isn't on that LVI panel. I would have to say that I know in advance that he wouldn't be keen on asking the client to use another practice for the day - too much risk that they wouldn't come back.

We live in a rural community where people know me well and often deal with me direct: farmers will often pick up drugs from my house rather than travel through to the surgery and if there's a problem with a neighbour's horse/cow/dog they'll generally try me before the surgery. Similarly it seems silly calling another vet out for a colic on the same yard where my horses live, even if I'm not on call at the time.

I'm fully aware that this is a dangerous way to work: it's a slippery slope and a 6pm knock on the door for a bottle of penicillin one day can turn into a 3am caesar another day just because you feel you 'ought' to help out, but I'm usually quite good at saying 'no, call the practice, I'm busy'. It was certainly what I told the farmer who rang me to do a couple of PDs when I was on holiday in Italy!

However whilst I'm generally happy to help out I do draw the line at missing something I have organised (and paid for!) and am glad that the situation last wekend didn't have to be put to the test.

Ps. We were 4th and 5th at the Areas with 67.69 and 67.82%. A trifle disappointing but it was the whole of Yorkshire plus some adjoining counties and there were more than 100 competitors. I tend to have very high aspirations then get disappointed when I fail to meet them! The horse I took will have been one of the youngest there so maybe next year!

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Peter Ding — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 17:24:42 GMT

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Peter Ding — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 16:34:50 GMT

IMHO iIn the specific circumstances of this case no reasonable employer would expect or demand or even ask that the employee do the work. There is always another ferry on another day, or another solution that keeps everyone happy. However was that definitely the situation in this case?

There seems to be an assumption that it was the case, but was everyone made aware of the pertinent details?

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Alan Tevendale — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 14:42:04 GMT

Hi Peter

I do see your point and I know that I certainly used to do the odd call when I was not on call when I was an assistant. However I would have never then, and certainly don't now of my employees, expect to have to do non-emergency work out of hours when I have already organised something myself. In cases like that it must be the responsibility of the practice and therefore the partners to take up the workload. With regard to time off being 'subject to the variable workload of the practice' again I do see your point and in many practices this is the only way things can work but as an employer I still have to honor time off when an employee has something already organised. I in that circumstance I cannot ask them to work. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Peter Ding — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 12:21:11 GMT

I can: many vet contracts I've seen indicate indicate time off on the rota is subject to the variable workload of the practice, and other factors e.g. employees entitlements to holidays. If, as is the case in many practices meat work/export work is at unsocial hours, the vets involved just share it out as it is accepted the requirements of the abattoir/meat plant/ferry companies are an intrinsic part of the lucrative work. It is not so much the written contract but what the other employees involved accept as part of their job that is more relevant here.

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 10:37:21 GMT

Good point Alan and i am ed Wren I hope:

a) you got toyour competition

b) you did well-let us know

I can't imagine any assistant agreeing to sign a contract which would make off duty work compulsory-and a REQUEST for extra work is a very different thing-Wren has already demonstrated her willingness tohelpout by attending a colic when officially off duty

Wynne

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Alan Tevendale — Sat, 13 Nov 2010 15:28:19 GMT

[quote user="i am ed"]

It seems odd that all the bosses wouldn't have the appropriate panels to carry out any work required within the practise.

[/quote]

I agree on this, we've always made sure that the partners have all the appropriate panels to cover all work covered by the practice. I hope you get your export sorted next week. I think your boss needs to sort out some provision for situations like this though or at least a protocol so that employees and clients know what is expected.

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Edward Jones — Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:39:11 GMT

It seems odd that all the bosses wouldn't have the appropriate panels to carry out any work required within the practise.

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Peter Ding — Sat, 13 Nov 2010 11:23:53 GMT

Does that not depend on whether they "expect it" for nothing, or whether it is part of the contract, or whether sufficient recompense is made to make up for it?

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 13 Nov 2010 09:59:09 GMT

Enjoy your competition-but I am disgusted that your practice expect you todo non-emergency work when you're off duty

Wynne

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Wren — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:16:56 GMT

Well it looks like the crisis may have been averted, but thanks for all the suggestions. Saturday is now a definite non-starter with Sunday's chances looking very slim. Roll on next week and fingers crossed that the winds keep blowing!

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Peter Ding — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 18:02:03 GMT

In that case it's a non-starter. From memory most Livestock and beef i have had to inspect & certify was within a set period of intended date of export ,and a day or twos delay was permitted in weather conditions like these, a bit like the pet passport worming and tick treatment. Obviously times have changed.

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Wren — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 17:06:40 GMT

I don't think the paperwork would be valid and I suspect they'd be left on the docks. It's a set-in-stone 24 hour window with no leeway. If the export doesn't happen within that period you have to cancel the paperwork, return it to DEFRA and get a fresh lot issued. It's pretty rigid really!

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Peter Ding — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 14:46:47 GMT

Why would this be a dodgy certificate?

If the exporter books on the ferry for tonight or Saturday morning in the full knowledge that it is unlikely to run and may well be delayed because of the weather i see absolutely nothing wrong with the certification.

What is dodgy about it?

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:33:48 GMT

Don't go down that route-PLEASE

Once you start with dodgy certs:

a) clients will expect it-and the next cert they'll expect will be even more dodgy

b) eventually you'll be found out-and the RCVS will be unforgiving

This really isn't your problem-and neither is it a welfare problem-your MRCVS is worth a LOT more than the financial loss to either owner or practice

Wynne

PS I'm really impressed-I think I'm a pretty capable and experienced amateaur rider-but eventers are in another league

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Peter Ding — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:46:43 GMT

A way round it? Think laterally?

Don't the regulations indicate that paperwork has to be completed within a window before the INTENDED day of export and that allowance is made for inclement weather with the existing paperwork still being valid for a few days....

Therefore

Why not suggest to the exporter that if he indicates it is intended to export, say, on Friday night it will make everything far easier for all concerned , even though gales will make transport ton on that date impossible, they can still go a day or two later!

Then you can inspect and fill in the paperwork on Friday day, your boss still gets the work and income and the consignment can go as soon a weather conditions permit!

A win/win?

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Bob Russell — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:12:31 GMT

Clients problem really - they could travel on Monday

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Wren — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 08:34:59 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]Maybe whoever is on duty could be added quickly.

[/quote]

I really, really don't think they'd thank me for it!

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 11 Nov 2010 21:51:10 GMT

Have you rung Animal Health? They magically added a colleague to a panel so he could export some cheese over the phone.

Maybe whoever is on duty could be added quickly.

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Wren — Thu, 11 Nov 2010 21:01:56 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Good luck with the competition What are you doing ? If it's eventing you have my admiration-those XC fenches really terrify me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll be thinking of you when I do my Sunday XC-a gallop on the mountain, but no huge scary fences

Wynne

[/quote]

Thank you. I am an eventer by trade in the summer (not top level by any means but have done some decent tracks - Chatsworth, Blair, Burgie etc.) but this is now officially winter so it's dressage I'm afraid. Dull but necessary

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Niall Taylor — Thu, 11 Nov 2010 20:20:28 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

You sound like the perfect assistant !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Although I'm a practice owner, I would say you have definitely more than earned this w/e. The animals won't suffer, because they won't have left their farm of origin, so enjoy your w/e

[/quote]

What Hannah said - any reasonable boss would agree that it's the owner's problem. This is a financial issue, not a welfare one. You are "unavailable" - if you had been skiing in Transylvania this weekend the dilemma would not have arisen - it's up to you to decide what to do with your time off.

Niall (hoping you're worrying needlessly)

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 11 Nov 2010 17:04:32 GMT

Good luck with the competition What are you doing ? If it's eventing you have my admiration-those XC fenches really terrify me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll be thinking of you when I do my Sunday XC-a gallop on the mountain, but no huge scary fences

Wynne

Re: I could, but should I have to?

Wren — Thu, 11 Nov 2010 15:02:22 GMT

Thank you, I was worried I was being unreasonable! It did occur to me that since DEFRA are so keen on pinching back so much of our LVI work (taking it 'in-house' I think they call it ), including some of our plum TB testing jobs, I could send this one their way too....