Out of hours clinics

Re: Out of hours clinics

Mark Hedberg — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 22:19:18 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]Use a pager company and call them from a withheld number. It's in "Settings" on your mobile. :)[/quote]

I mean if you give them your number to send you a picture! My number is withheld on the phone.

[/quote]

Oh, good point. How about email, then? They could email a picture from their home computer or smartphone (some cheap samsungs can be had for a tenner a month) to a practice email and you could check it on your practice computer or similar cheap smartphone!

Cheers,

Mark

Re: Out of hours clinics

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 22:12:34 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]Use a pager company and call them from a withheld number. It's in "Settings" on your mobile. :)[/quote]

I mean if you give them your number to send you a picture! My number is withheld on the phone.

Re: Out of hours clinics

Mark Hedberg — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 21:55:08 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="Alan Tevendale"]On a fair number of occasions now (certainly increasing) I've been sent picture messages via mobile of wounds/swellings/eyes etc. Seems a great way of helping that all important and worrying for client decision of can wait / can't wait. [/quote]

But then the crazy hypochondriac cat owner now has your mobile number!

[/quote]

Use a pager company and call them from a withheld number. It's in "Settings" on your mobile. :)

Re: Out of hours clinics

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 09:40:23 GMT

Malcolm £62.50 to £83.33 inc VAT for a bitch spay !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What do they anaesthetise it with ????????????????????????

A sledge-hammer ???????????????????

That's one way of balancing the books I suppose !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wynne

Re: Out of hours clinics

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 09:36:36 GMT

Though I have no hesitation in charging a fair rate for OOH I would have sorted this one FOC as I would consider it my responsibility. As you all know, I do most of my own OOH, and pay a hospital sized practice to cover when I'm off duty. A few weeks ago, a bitch spay of mine started to bleed after going home Luckily, she didn't need further surgery, but anyway, the other practice sorted her out, and billed me. Fair all round

Wynne

Re: Out of hours clinics

Malcolm Ness — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 09:10:45 GMT

Off at a bit of a tangent here.

A client insisted on meeting with me "the owner" yesterday morning. Always a little apprehensive but I agreed to see him and did my homework first. Turns out he was booked in to have his bitch speyed last week and didn't turn up. Receptionist 'phoned him to find out why and perhaps re-book. Client was "more than a bit abrupt with me, didn't say why but said he was no longer a client of ours". Apprehension increased.

His opening gambit was "Have I got stupid tw#t tatooed across my forehead?" - that took me aback a little and while searching for a

suitably non-confrontational, non-inflammatory response, he added, "Well I f###ing well should have!".

It turns out that he had decided to have his bitch speyed not by us but instead by a well known corporate chain ("50% off neutering until end of November"). Bitch didn't do well and needed seen several hours after the op by which time well known corporate was closed and and he was redirected to well known deputising service where he was separated from more than £250=00 - three or four times what the spey had cost earlier in the day.

The reason for his visit was two-fold. First to apologise for the way he had spoken to our receptionist and second to ask if we would take him back as a client.

Not sure if there is a moral to the story but not all clients - even the "disloyal" ones are bad.

Not sure where the line demarcating sharp practice should be drawn but advertising cheap, loss-leading surgery then leaving the client exposed to an ambitiously priced deputising service when things go awry seems wrong to me.

Shame that RCVS is so busy with vet nursing and designing logos at the moment.

Re: Out of hours clinics

Alan Tevendale — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 07:20:02 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

But then the crazy hypochondriac cat owner now has your mobile number!

[/quote]

Now's there's the clever bit - our nurses cover our phones so the crazy hypochondriac cat owner now has our out of hours emergency mobile number - which she was given by our answering machine in the first place. I'm still sleeping easy

Re: Out of hours clinics

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 00:15:26 GMT

But then the crazy hypochondriac cat owner now has your mobile number!

Re: Out of hours clinics

Julian Earl — Mon, 08 Nov 2010 22:28:35 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Dead simple. Cost it properly,and then have the courage to charge properly

Wynne

[/quote]

Now there's an interesting point but it may involve a circular premise: if the work is not to be subsidised by the day-time work, we would have to charge things at VetsNow prices i.e. as though it was a separate unsupported business. But then you would have to employ people to be on-call but they would (probably) not be called out anywhere near as much and would generate a negligible income stream because fewer people would call you out and so you might have to increase the OOH fees and so even fewer people... etc., ad infinitum.

The only way that this argument fails is if clients accepted massively higher OOH fees, but I remain to be convinced that they would. Even at current price levels, thereare only so many OOH calls, and such fees and/or numbers of calls would IME have to be tripled or quadrupled to generate enough income for the OOH to be self-funding.

Re: Out of hours clinics

Mark Holmes — Mon, 08 Nov 2010 17:38:26 GMT

I[quote user="i am ed"]

[quote user="Simon Neuhoff"]"My cat's got a cut foot and I'm not sure it needs to be seen - do you have internt access?"[/quote]

Interesting. Many (smart)phones can email photos quite easily as well - even a moderately non-tech savvy client could probably email a photo from an iphone (say).

[/quote]

I'm on call, tonight so I will be requesting photos. "Yes madam I can clearly see your dog is stood up and hence I assume he is breathing, if you ring the clinic in the morning I will be delighted to see him for you!"

Re: Out of hours clinics

Edward Jones — Mon, 08 Nov 2010 16:00:07 GMT

[quote user="Simon Neuhoff"]"My cat's got a cut foot and I'm not sure it needs to be seen - do you have internt access?"[/quote]

Interesting. Many (smart)phones can email photos quite easily as well - even a moderately non-tech savvy client could probably email a photo from an iphone (say).

Re: Out of hours clinics

Alan Tevendale — Mon, 08 Nov 2010 15:31:04 GMT

[quote user="Simon Neuhoff"]

Not long before we got rid of on call for good though I had a great call - client phoned up and said "My cat's got a cut foot and I'm not sure it needs to be seen - do you have internt access?" I confirmed I did and he directed me to his family's home page where he'd put a digital photo of said foot up! I had a look and said "Quite right - can wait till tomorrow!"

[/quote]

On a fair number of occasions now (certainly increasing) I've been sent picture messages via mobile of wounds/swellings/eyes etc. Seems a great way of helping that all important and worrying for client decision of can wait / can't wait. I certainly sleep better at night and I'm sure the client will too.

Re: Out of hours clinics

Simon Neuhoff — Mon, 08 Nov 2010 13:52:27 GMT

[quote user="Emily Nightingale"]

A lot of owners misuse the services provided and unfortunately panic drives them to seek vet attention because it's there, rather than because it is necessary.

I am aware that owners often make things out to be worse on the phone and the true emergencies fortunately are few and far between but if clients were conditioned to see the services as emergency services, then perhaps the cost incurred in an emergency would not appear so great.

The number of times I have heard the morning after the night before " they only gave her an antibiotic jab and a checkover and said to come to you in the morning" for a minor issue followed up by " and they charged me £145!!".. . Perhaps we need to educate owners in what constitutes an emergency, and what to do with minor things that clearly can wait until the morning.

[/quote]

Always difficult to assess an emergency over the phone - I've had clients describe horrific eye problems over the phone that turned out to be very mild conjunctivitis cases - and others very calm about genuinely serious trauma.

Re: Out of hours clinics

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 08 Nov 2010 10:28:43 GMT

Dead simple. Cost it properly,and then have the courage to charge properly

Wynne

Re: Out of hours clinics

Julian Earl — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 19:48:23 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]

[quote user="Julian Earl"]

Does anyone think that OOH work in a "normal" practice is lucrative? I consider it to be subsidised by the day-work and if we did not do it, other charges could be reduced. Vets' salaries and nurses' overtime would go down a certain amount, some other lesser costs would also reduce.

[/quote]

Actually, some slow days I think it's the other way around - it subsidizes the day work a bit. :)

[/quote]

It may be so on individual days, but I was thinking more of the whole 24 hour service malarkey over a year.

Re: Out of hours clinics

Mark Hedberg — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 09:53:41 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]

[/quote]

Actually, some slow days I think it's the other way around - it subsidizes the day work a bit. :)

Re: Out of hours clinics

Emily Nightingale — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 20:31:41 GMT

If clients treated OOH services as emergency care providers ie. the same as calling 999, then it is only true emergencies that should be seen. I have done my own OOH and now am covered by a local branch of VetsNow, and believe me, calls at 3am to ask about why a cat has urinated outside it's litter tray, or how often should one worm a puppy are more than frustrating and make you want to send them a lawyer type invoice for advice over the phone with added tax for disturbed nights sleep!!

A lot of owners misuse the services provided and unfortunately panic drives them to seek vet attention because it's there, rather than because it is necessary.

Btw a local practice to us has bargained with their OOH so that they take over at 11pm, so that the "witching hour" cases are seen by their own vets, and they are sent to the OOH from 11pm to 8am.

Re: Out of hours clinics

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 20:17:26 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]Does anyone think that OOH work in a "normal" practice is lucrative? [/quote]

Yes and no. The boost to the earnings was pleasant, especially if it comes at the end of a quiet day. But it also increased staff turnover (and therefore recruitment costs), bad debt and gave me all sorts of health and safety concerns having lone staff with clients. Happy to say bye bye to it.

Re: Out of hours clinics

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 17:11:10 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]Does anyone think that OOH work in a "normal" practice is lucrative?[/quote]

Ok, so I'm abnormal.

It's quite normal to be abnormal in this business.

Re: Out of hours clinics

Julian Earl — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 13:12:43 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Mellor"]In a similar position, I had no difficulty making a decision. I could not see the economic sense: hand over all the lucrative "out-of-hours" work to (er, you know who), and also pay them £350 a month for the privilege. At the same time, upsetting many clients with whom I have spent many years painstakingly building a reputation.

[/quote]

Re: Out of hours clinics

Alan Tevendale — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 07:45:22 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]As an aside, it's actually a big selling point that our practice does our own ooh. The other practice is a corporate, and their ooh is handled in a city half an hour away. Whereas we see you with our own familiar staff. Lot of our clients come to us specifically because we cover our own ooh.

[/quote]

We are in a very similar situation. At this point we are the only pracitce (as far as I know) that is covering OOH in our area. Otherwise clients are having to travel 30 mins in whichever direction you choose to the nearest corporate OOH provider. Great selling point for our practice and we certainly gain clients as a result.

Re: Out of hours clinics

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 22:44:50 GMT

As an aside, it's actually a big selling point that our practice does our own ooh. The other practice is a corporate, and their ooh is handled in a city half an hour away. Whereas we see you with our own familiar staff. Lot of our clients come to us specifically because we cover our own ooh.

Re: Out of hours clinics

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 22:41:13 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

The patients being sent home in the morning even if still very ill, and the owners being expected to transport them (against Gto PC ) was another of my criticisms

Wynne

[/quote]

Happened to me once. Very annoying.

Re: Out of hours clinics

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 19:19:41 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Mellor"]can anyone advise me how these things pan out .[/quote]

Andrew, it's a decision for you for your practice. Follow your instincts. Don't sign up.

In a similar position, I had no difficulty making a decision. I could not see the economic sense: hand over all the lucrative "out-of-hours" work to (er, you know who), and also pay them £350 a month for the privilege. At the same time, upsetting many clients with whom I have spent many years painstakingly building a reputation.

Re: Out of hours clinics

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 17:10:51 GMT

The patients being sent home in the morning even if still very ill, and the owners being expected to transport them (against Gto PC ) was another of my criticisms

Wynne