Cost of veterinary education

Re: Cost of veterinary education

Richard Fox — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 18:43:07 GMT

I do agree we'll either have very poor Vet students coming out who are now not guaranteed a job or just ones from well off families. This is going to be an elitist subject to study? However having been on the board of selectors at Liverpool I wonder whether more "British" students will have places in our veterinary universities if more revenue can be raised rather than from over-seas students (not that I have anything against over-seas students!). However if that is true will we then have even more new grads looking for jobs - maybe I digress.....

The problem I found being a lecturer with paying students are you are directly accountable for good or bad standards i.e. we pay your wages... The pressure grew as tuition fees rose!

The quality of education however is often down to the lecturer / dept and not how much money they have although money helps to keep lecturers in jobs without the massive pressure to raise funds though research thereby diminishing the ability or desire to teach?

Re: Cost of veterinary education

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 17:44:08 GMT

I feel so sorry for todays new grads My 1st practice job paid £6K + house +car, but money was worth about 6 x what it is now, so new grads today should earn £36 K + house +car, and we didn't have debts (grants instead ) Mind you we all accepted OOH as the norm, but even so .................

Wynne

Re: Cost of veterinary education

HMC — Thu, 04 Nov 2010 10:59:00 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Will this mean the profession becoming a moneyocracy rather than a meritocracy with more people entering the profession based on wealth rather than on merit? [/quote]

Yes, IMHO. I am lucky to have graduated with only £18k (ish) of student loan, having done the vet course as my first degree. I could not have asked my parents for any more help than I got and last year I still accrued more interest on my student loan than I paid off. Other people are luckier with help from their parents but that shouldn't come into it, how wealthy/generous one's parents are. I would not have applied if I knew I would be saddled with the debts that some people have.

Re: Cost of veterinary education

Robert Whiteford — Thu, 04 Nov 2010 10:46:00 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]I'm very worried about the future of the profession.[/quote]

....and another nail in the coffin of small rural mixed practice. New graduates can find an easier and more lucrative position down south in small animal practice. They will have to chase the money and as a bonus wont need to do out of hours on call and get cold and wet!

Re: Cost of veterinary education

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 04 Nov 2010 10:10:07 GMT

I'm very worried about the future of the profession. Debts like that and starting salaries of £20 k just don't add up. Could this be part of the reason so few boys want to be veterinary surgeons ?

Wynne

Re: Cost of veterinary education

Emma Middleton — Wed, 03 Nov 2010 21:42:15 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Will it mean future salaries should/will have to rise to offset appalling levels of new graduate debt? [/quote]

I don't think future salaries will necessarily need to rise. I went to vet school as a "second degree" full fee paying student (at over £14,000 per year), but luckily crammed it into 4 years given I already had a relevent degree. Thus my BVSc cost over £57,000 in tuition fees and of course living costs had to be covered too. Fortunately my parents helped with a portion of it, but I still have a staggering amount of debt (both bank and student loans co). It used to get me down, but now 3 years qualified, I have accepted that I will probably be making loan repayments and paying back family for the majority of my working life. I guess that's the price I pay for wanting to be a vet and nothing else! A pension? You've got to be kidding!!

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Will this mean the profession becoming a moneyocracy rather than a meritocracy with more people entering the profession based on wealth rather than on merit? [/quote]

I do think that students from lower income families are going to be put off applying, however I would also say that as I understand it, the system will continue to work so that repayments are income-related, and come out of your monthly salary like PAYE. The more you earn, the more you pay back. IMHO having that much debt and repaying it (eventually!) is do-able, it's just whether you're prepared to do it for the sake of becoming a vet. Nevertheless I'd say it will undoubtedly change the profession when a significant proportion of UK vets all have huge loans to pay off...

Re: Cost of veterinary education

Bob Russell — Wed, 03 Nov 2010 14:47:53 GMT

No - the profession is slightly more 'stuffed' than it was yesterday!!

Re: Cost of veterinary education

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 03 Nov 2010 13:32:20 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"] Will this mean the profession becoming a moneyocracy rather than a meritocracy with more people entering the profession based on wealth rather than on merit? Will it mean future salaries should/will have to rise to offset appalling levels of new graduate debt?[/quote]

I don't think it will make that much difference. I have a substantial student loan (more money that I earned per year when graduated) and it was not off putting. Salaries need to rise, but there has been no significant jump once graduates were leaving uni with a debt [SPVS figures].

I imagine we'll just be in a situation where newly qualified vets are poorer than they are today, with more an more out of work or moving into jobs outside of the profession.

Re: Cost of veterinary education

James Allsop — Wed, 03 Nov 2010 13:25:30 GMT

when I was at uni i remember chatting to the dean of the time who suggested that foerign and full fee paying mature students were getting priortised for places because the university got more money from them than they got for a standard student. The 5 year course tuition fees at the time (i was told by one of the fee paying students) was around £65,000 for the 5 years. This was in 1999 so I expect things have gone up somewhat since then. How can you enter this profession as a mature student with around £200,000 debts and still buy a house or buy into a practice, or even think about a pension?