Informations about rvcs

Re: Informations about rvcs

orik — Thu, 04 Nov 2010 15:53:13 GMT

[quote user="orik"]

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

All vets in the UK graduate with a degree in veterinary medicine. This degree will allow them to work in equine, large animal or small animal practice.

[/quote]

This is also applicable to my country, but the specialisation post graduate is available only obtaining the certifica or diplomas?

[/quote]

Which is the situation for exotic animals? Are widespread? Are there many specialists?

Re: Informations about rvcs

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 04 Nov 2010 00:47:58 GMT

[quote user="cinweb"]I didn't expect any meaningful discussion about something that's not related to the vet med, opinions in a newsgroup are opinions whoever is behind it as you know, and you are directly responsible for it, as well as showing amazement[/quote]

Re: Informations about rvcs

Cinzia Gandini — Thu, 04 Nov 2010 00:35:29 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]Pardon? I read back on my posts; where did I give you two options? I just didn't immediately see where a British vet was cheaper than a foreign vet, I didn't see any qualification there.[/quote]

Mark it was not directed at you , but the post: [quote user="Tiago Cardoso"]ncompetent British vet than to a competent foreigner?[/quote]

Whereby I took incompetent to mean inexperienced ie new grad, and hence they would be cheaper!

[quote user="cinweb"]

It's amazing, out of curiosity...where are you from? Did you have any relevant experience abroad in US or any EU countries? Do you regularly go abroad? Do you speak a second or third language? Do you read any foreign journals written in other languages? ....amazing

Well I do respect your privacy, and I'm very sorry for the questions and anyway I agree in a climate of uncertainty and recession priority should be given to locals, which could also affect the high standards which should actually be forgotten because they will be affected

[/quote]

Hello Mr/Mrs/Miss Cinweb - I would love to have a meaningful discussion with you but will not do so whilst you are posting under a pseudonym. This is the only forum where I use my real name and I think it's respectful I know who I am talking to.

[/quote]

I didn't expect any meaningful discussion about something that's not related to the vet med, opinions in a newsgroup are opinions whoever is behind it as you know, and you are directly responsible for it, as well as showing amazement

Re: Informations about rvcs

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 03 Nov 2010 23:44:56 GMT

Mark it was not directed at you , but the post: [quote user="Tiago Cardoso"]ncompetent British vet than to a competent foreigner?[/quote]

Whereby I took incompetent to mean inexperienced ie new grad, and hence they would be cheaper!

[quote user="cinweb"]

[/quote]

Re: Informations about rvcs

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 03 Nov 2010 19:15:04 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]How exactly would the British vet cost less, all other things being equal? Are you looking at it from a salary and cpd point of view?[/quote]

Completely. Usually vets are paid on years of relevant experience, a 5 year qualified vet would demand a higher salary than a new graduate whatever country they were from. Your two options you gave me weren't comparable!

[/quote]

Pardon? I read back on my posts; where did I give you two options? I just didn't immediately see where a British vet was cheaper than a foreign vet. If you're comparing experienced foreign vets to new British grads then you're absolutely right, of course. I just didn't explicitly make that point, but I do admit you're right. I somehow read your earlier post that said a British vet was cheaper, and I didn't see any qualification there.

Re: Informations about rvcs

Cinzia Gandini — Wed, 03 Nov 2010 18:53:49 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="Tiago Cardoso"]Michael - are you saying that if you were looking to recruit a vet you would rather offer the job to an incompetent British vet than to a competent foreigner?[/quote]

That depends what I was looking for. If I needed a competent member of staff, capable of sole charge [for example] then the experienced foreign vet would get the job. If I was looking for a new graduate then the incompetent British vet would get the job, they would cost less if that was what I was looking for.

If I wanted a new grad and I had two identical applicants, one British, one foreign with English as a second language, then I would give the job to the British vet. As I think almost all people would whether they will stand up and say it or not. If a woman comes through the door obviously 6 months pregnant you aren't supposed to discriminate against her for the bump, bet she wouldn't get a post.

[/quote]

Re: Informations about rvcs

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 03 Nov 2010 12:27:01 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]How exactly would the British vet cost less, all other things being equal? Are you looking at it from a salary and cpd point of view?[/quote]

Re: Informations about rvcs

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 03 Nov 2010 08:09:03 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

. If I was looking for a new graduate then the incompetent British vet would get the job, they would cost less if that was what I was looking for.

[/quote]

I see your point, by all means hire whoever you like, just a point of curiosity on my part. How exactly would the British vet cost less, all other things being equal? Are you looking at it from a salary and cpd point of view?

Re: Informations about rvcs

Cinzia Gandini — Wed, 03 Nov 2010 02:06:14 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

I think there will be enough English graduates for the jobs. There are already issues with apparant oversupply. I know too many English new grads still looking for jobs.

PDP is paid employment, but as a new grad at a pathetically low rate!

[/quote]

yes, you have a point, but it's a bit lame. I am British so I can go abroad and complain if they don't speak English sounds a bit odd especially if you are migrating to look for a job in another EU country, opening a business or are retired taking advantage of a foreign NHS etc. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6161705.stm with those figures you should revise your relationship with immigrants coming to the UK from the EU. And those are old figures

Re: Informations about rvcs

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 03 Nov 2010 00:17:18 GMT

[quote user="Tiago Cardoso"]Michael - are you saying that if you were looking to recruit a vet you would rather offer the job to an incompetent British vet than to a competent foreigner?[/quote]

Re: Informations about rvcs

Tiago Cardoso — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 23:26:13 GMT

Michael - are you saying that if you were looking to recruit a vet you would rather offer the job to an incompetent British vet than to a competent foreigner?

Regards

Re: Informations about rvcs

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 22:13:51 GMT

Mark - I drafted a long reply that I tried to post and seems to have vanished!

The gist was that when I graduated in 2006 all my peer group had jobs [unless they were taking a planned break] yet four years later I only know a handful of new grads and 2/5 are unemployed - and speaking to them that's not uncommon.

I appreciate the reason is multifaceted and not just down to immigration, but I do think that a country should only import skills that it lacks or people to do jobs that people in that country don't want. We should look after our own first!

I do think things will get worse with all the uni's chucking out more students [Nottingham on board soon].

No I'm not suggesting deporting you!

Re: Informations about rvcs

Mark Hedberg — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 21:25:32 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Sorry, British. We should not be giving jobs to foreign vets when there are unemployed British vets! Period.

I can't believe anyone actually thinks different. even if they don't have the guts to say it.

Immigration is to fill the gaps in society - you can't just decide to work in Australia, you need to be a wanted profession/trade that they have a shortage of. It should be the same here. I am very anti EU!.

[/quote]

I think different. Of course, I'm not British. I'm sorry you're anti-EU, but you're just as free to take their jobs as they are to take yours. And by the by, I can pick up any copy of the Vet Times and Vet record and see at least two dozen jobs. Not to mention the recruiting companies, of course.

There's a bit of a paradox here. "Veterinary Surgeons Wanted" is being advertised in the Vet Record, Vet Times, and online with half a dozen recruitment companies. Several corporate practices and such are advertising for part time vets or full time vets.

So are the universities graduating more graduates than the number of annual retirees? Employers, is there something about the new grads that makes the employer less willing to hire them?

We (the foreign vets) have skills and experience to offer. Many of us (I'm not trying to sound like "We Are Legion" here, sorry) come to the UK because we want to learn how to be very good vets. Not just good vets, but very good vets. MRCVS still means a great deal to the world. I have never regretted moving to the United Kingdom and have done my best to contribute positively to the practice I work in. I work very hard to make sure that the clients who see me go home with their needs seen to.

(Ok, I think it rains a little too much, but that's just me.)

I pay PAYE tax, NI, road tax, council tax, VAT, and my MRCVS and BSAVA memberships. And probably a few other taxes too.

And I am not British.

Should I go home then?

Re: Informations about rvcs

orik — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 21:15:57 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

All vets in the UK graduate with a degree in veterinary medicine. This degree will allow them to work in equine, large animal or small animal practice.

[/quote]

This is also applicable to my country, but the specialisation post graduate is available only obtaining the certifica or diplomas?

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Unlike in some EU countries, the universities all produce graduates to the same high standard (well, Edinburgh is slightly better.. ) I know that in some EU countries the quality of the degree attained can be variable, depending on the university attended.

[/quote]

The EAEVE certification is required to simplify the acknowledgment of degree in all EU countries, otherwise I should perform a rvcs's exam in order to be enabled to work in UK . My university have this certification luckily.

Re: Informations about rvcs

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 20:40:24 GMT

All vets in the UK graduate with a degree in veterinary medicine. This degree will allow them to work in equine, large animal or small animal practice. Unlike in some EU countries, the universities all produce graduates to the same high standard (well, Edinburgh is slightly better.. ) I know that in some EU countries the quality of the degree attained can be variable, depending on the university attended.

The certificate and diplomas that you have seen on the RCVS website refer to post-graduate qualifications that can be undertaken from 3 years after graduation. These will be in specific subject areas such as internal medicine, cardiology etc. and allow people to show a higher level of expertise in these areas.

Re: Informations about rvcs

orik — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 18:33:27 GMT

The other aspect that I don't have clear is the specialisation. In my country there are schools of specialisation that are a degree of three years with final thesis. On rvcs's site I have found a page dedicated to diploma and certificate (I don't understand the difference..) but they aren't a degree but a certificate of proficiency based on clinical cases and essentially on pratice (that is better in my opinion). There are no exams or thesis to be done, right?

Which is the situation in UK? New graduates take a specialization or not? The veterinary specialist is an 'elite class' or is common?

Re: Informations about rvcs

Bob Russell — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 17:45:09 GMT

It is interesting which European graduates chose to work in the UK!

God help them it things are even worse for some new graduates in their countries than ours!!!

Many of the graduates that are interested in moving to the UK are the more motivated ones so this can make them a genuine threat to job prospects of UK graduates. It does often make them a good prospect to employ. There are no legal restrictions to employment of EU citizens.

With the large number of graduates in training I fail to see why non-EU graduates can be encouraged under immigration rules. Before I get screamed at by our antipodean colleagues the two way flow of vets has a long history and the profession has benefited greatly from their input. I also accept that there is no longer the draw of high wages due to the weakness of the pound!!!

I would be pleased to see some controls such as one in, one out for the countries we have had these long-term relationships with. This would allow the continued exchange of vets and leave the highly skilled worker places for those with exceptional experience such as certain specialists and some teachers.

Re: Informations about rvcs

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 17:29:31 GMT

As far as I am aware you wouldn't find anyone working for less than £20,000 per year. This may be as a package so the salary may be less if you are provided with a house and/or car. Most people are probably (hopefully) on more than this. Not what I'd call poor pay for a first job.

Re: Informations about rvcs

orik — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:46:22 GMT

How much the low paid is (under 1000.....) ?

On internet I find too job's offers, are all fakes?

The job's crisis is everywhere, in each country. In italy in order to work you must open a surgery with one or two colleagues.

Re: Informations about rvcs

Clive Ansell — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:26:50 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Micheal -ENGLISH ?????????????????????????????????

I'm offended and Arlo is TERRIFIED I'll accuse him of breaking the law by not stopping you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/quote]

Sorry, British. We should not be giving jobs to foreign vets when there are unemployed British vets! Period.

I can't believe anyone actually thinks different. even if they don't have the guts to say it.

[/quote]

Actually no, it is not English or even British, but European.

Any citizen of an EU country has an absolute right to work in any other member state.

Re: Informations about rvcs

Lucie Allcutt — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:11:01 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Sorry, British. We should not be giving jobs to foreign vets when there are unemployed British vets! Period.

I can't believe anyone actually thinks different. even if they don't have the guts to say it.

[/quote]

Just so you know, Veterinary Surgeon is on the shortage list of professions for people seeking to enter the country as a highly skilled worker. Maybe it shouldn't be? I entered the country on a family settlement visa, but certainly considered going the work visa route. I didn't realize how bad the situation was. Although I think it is only "bad" for new graduates.

Anyway, I have just found employment :-D I start next week!!! I am not quite sorry to be adding myself to your list of foreign vets with jobs :-P Although if it makes you feel better, I will be naturalizing as soon as poss! ;-)

Re: Informations about rvcs

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 13:23:46 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Micheal -ENGLISH ?????????????????????????????????

I'm offended and Arlo is TERRIFIED I'll accuse him of breaking the law by not stopping you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/quote]

Sorry, British. We should not be giving jobs to foreign vets when there are unemployed British vets! Period.

I can't believe anyone actually thinks different. even if they don't have the guts to say it.

Re: Informations about rvcs

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 09:44:57 GMT

Micheal -ENGLISH ?????????????????????????????????

I'm offended and Arlo is TERRIFIED I'll accuse him of breaking the law by not stopping you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BOO HOO HOO

2nd thoughts-hardly anyone will believe I'm a delicate little shrinking violet

Wynne

Re: Informations about rvcs

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 01 Nov 2010 22:32:45 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Erm....rather a large generalisation Michael! Maybe you had a rough deal but not everyone does.....[/quote]

Gillian, it was more a general dig at the poor pay, a recurring theme on these boards and when I speak to colleagues. Not myself particularly!

Re: Informations about rvcs

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 01 Nov 2010 22:21:51 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]PDP is paid employment, but as a new grad at a pathetically low rate![/quote]

Erm....rather a large generalisation Michael! Maybe you had a rough deal but not everyone does.....