Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Bob Russell — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 17:10:49 GMT

I do not expect to move in my working lifetime (hopefully!!!) but setting up even a couple of kennels at home is quite pricey if done properly!

The boiler house is like a small log cabin so as far as the tax man is concerned it is a depreciating asset. How many people can say they have a centrally heated shed? I can!!!

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Malcolm Ness — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 13:00:23 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]am hoping to get tax relief on my new boiler house[/quote]

Careful about CGT when you come to move house.

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 09:49:17 GMT

Julian The smiley says it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, luckily I don't often have difficult clients, but when I do, it really does help to compare us with other professional people- it's polite, and doesn't devalue us as a profession. Admittedly, those clients may decide to move elsewhere, but I can live with that

Wynne

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Julian Earl — Mon, 08 Nov 2010 22:35:28 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

I tell them in advance and point out it would be much more if they were arrested in the middle of the night-and had to get a solicitor out.£ 50/per hour for a professionalperson is fully justified (especially at that time ) If they don't want to pay it, they can nurse the patient at home-it will definitely be better off than in an empty surgery-and I don't resent the hard work since I'm properly paid

My attitude is that it is uptome toprovide the service-it's uptothe owners to pay for it

Wynne

[/quote]

Thanks for the reply... but I think you need a better class of client.

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Bob Russell — Mon, 08 Nov 2010 13:43:59 GMT

I am hoping to get tax relief on my new boiler house at home as this is where the kennels are for those individuals needing overnight care and are fit enough to travel!

As I only take home required drugs my boiler house does not need to be registered as veterinary premises!!!

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 08 Nov 2010 10:22:53 GMT

My attitude is that it is uptome toprovide the service-it's uptothe owners to pay for it

Wynne

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Julian Earl — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 13:07:03 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

No Julian In my practice if an animal is hospitalised, then someone is in the surgery I NEVER abandon them there, so either my nurse,or myself is paid a fully justifiable sum for time in work at an unsocial hour. Extra cleaning- I suppose I wasn't strictly accurate in saying charges halved, as each animal would be charged £7 hospitalisation,and it's only the overtime that would be halved. Thanks for pointing out

[/quote]

How do your clients react when told that it will cost £830 for one night's hospitalisation? I know how mine would react.

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 09:59:02 GMT

Micheal That's doing things for the owner not the animal, and since the animalwould be better off at home, then IMHO this would be contrary to our oath- "My constant endevour will be toensure the welfare of ANIMALS committed to my care "

Wynne

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 23:59:47 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]I agree totally about abandoning sick animals in empty practices I can't think of a single clinical reason to justify this.[/quote]

Stops owners ringing up in the middle of the night! Certain kinds of owners far more likely to have their pet hospitalised.

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Julian Earl — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 20:52:41 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Clive Answer to charges

... (Above rates assume only 1 hospitalised patient , as this is a small practice-if there were 2 hospitalised, veterinary /nursing charges would be halved )

Wynne

[/quote]

Why? If there are two animals hospitalised, there is twice as much work, twice as much time spent at the surgery, twice as much cleaning etc.?

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 17:30:28 GMT

Exactly They're able to do it cheaper than I can,because there's more animals hospitalised, but I can offer continuity of care, and no transport problems

I agree totally about abandoning sick animals in empty practices I can't think of a single clinical reason to justify this. It either needs veterinary/nursing care, or it's better off home !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wynne

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

vs0u — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 17:22:17 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

3)If I stay with it, then for a 14 hour night, the cost will be £7 for hospitalisation (covering extra heat/light /food for it ) and £700 (14 x £50 ) for veterinary overtime +VAT =£830.73

If my RVN stays with it £7 for hospitalisation £280.50 nurses overtime + VAT = £337.81

[/quote]

That makes an OOH clinic look very cheap! Also makes the pay they offer look very poor!

What annoys me is practices charging for hospitalisation when the animal is left alone all night (or just checked once). That is what makes a proper basic level of overnight care look expensive to clients. 'Well my pet was fine at my vets and they only charge £50 a night' 'yes but your pet has been abandoned for 15 hours and you have paid £50 for the privilege'...etc

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 16:58:31 GMT

BTW I have heard of practices who expect on call nurses to sleep in the practice, but only pay them for time actually spent with the animals-unsurprisingly, the nurses, especially if they have partners/children are VERY unhappy. I would question whether this is legal, as the EWT Directive considers time spent in the practice premises as working time-it's done because the practices concerned are scared of charging a realistic rate, and unsurprisingly , the practice partners don't want to be out of pocket either !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wynne

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 16:16:29 GMT

Clive Answer to charges

1) Day hospitalisation Don't charge as heat/light/cleaning etc covered by overall overheads

2) Don't do it,as if an animal is sufficiently ill to be hospitalised, it's sufficiently ill to have someone with it. It's far better off at home, with the owner instructed to phone if the least bit worried

3)If I stay with it, then for a 14 hour night, the cost will be £7 for hospitalisation (covering extra heat/light /food for it ) and £700 (14 x £50 ) for veterinary overtime +VAT =£830.73

If my RVN stays with it £7 for hospitalisation £280.50 nurses overtime + VAT = £337.81

4) Leaving it alone in the surgery-DEFINITELY don't do it

(Above rates assume only 1 hospitalised patient , as this is a small practice-if there were 2 hospitalised, veterinary /nursing charges would be halved )

Wynne

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Mark Holmes — Wed, 03 Nov 2010 10:37:55 GMT

I think insurance makes things more difficult with regards to fees than less. Without insurance people can charge whatever they can persuade somebody to pay provided everybody is fully informed, why not? You start a business charging £150,000 to stroke somebody's pet for a day if you felt there was a gap in the market. (I think you would be disappointed) Insurance however leaves the system open to abuse.

6 mri facilities in 30 mile radius is not efficient use of resources, and I would expect MRI fees to be much cheaper if insurance was not available as they would have to compete to make efficient use of their facilities.

Open competion is perfectly normal in any other business why do vets feel we should be exempt?

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Richard Fox — Wed, 03 Nov 2010 10:27:02 GMT

From a lab perspective we have resisted increasing lab fees for 2 years and only this year we have increased our fees in line with inflation :( I doubt that many vet practices have put up their fees massively as its not in their interest in this current climate?

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Clive Ansell — Wed, 03 Nov 2010 10:05:29 GMT

[quote user="i am ed"]

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Given that the minimum wage is £5.93, add employers NIC of 12.8% (I think), and "night" is typically 14 hours, it would have to be at least £93.65 to cover staff costs if present all night, even if only paying minimum wage ??? [/quote]

Your calculation is incomplete - We need to know the hospitalisation rate (average number of animals hospitalised per night) to work out the staffing cost in this way.

[/quote]

I know, I was really thinking of the practice that only occasionally keeps animals overnight and has to make separate provision for overnight care.

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Edward Jones — Wed, 03 Nov 2010 09:42:33 GMT

Your calculation is incomplete - We need to know the hospitalisation rate (average number of animals hospitalised per night) to work out the staffing cost in this way.

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Clive Ansell — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 17:09:06 GMT

out of interest what do people charge for hospitalization?

1) Daytime

2) Night, with a staff member present all night

3) Night, with some one popping in occasionally

4) Night, unattended

Given that the minimum wage is £5.93, add employers NIC of 12.8% (I think), and "night" is typically 14 hours, it would have to be at least £93.65 to cover staff costs if present all night, even if only paying minimum wage ???

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 16:57:07 GMT

If they weren't insured I would expect the owners to pay-it's not my fault either if someone else's animal is so ill it needs intensive care !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As you say, we will have to agree to differ on this one

Regards

Wynne

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 16:48:13 GMT

I am not querying your charges Wynne - they sound fair for someone working a busy day. But looking after one individual animal overnight? And then expecting the insurance company to cover the cost of one-to-one care? Hmmm.Not convinced that is reasonable. Would you do that in the daytime if you only had one animal hospitalised and no other patients to see? What's the difference? In the same way it isn't the daytime patient's fault that they are your only patient, it isn't the night time patient's fault either! Think we'll have to agree to disagree

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 16:25:22 GMT

I agree Gillian £50 per hour would not cover the overheads, and support staff wages, if charged for daytime work, but I assume those are already covered when I do OOH, so that money's for me

O wners shouldn't complain at time and a half for OOH as I expect that's what they would want for working anti-social hours

£50 per hour for time and a half = £33.33 per hour normal rates I took the morning off a week last Saturday, and that's exactly what my locum charged £100 for 9 to 12

For someone working "normal hours " (9 to 5 Mon to Fri ) and statutory holidays £33.33 /hour= just over £61 k per annum A good salary, but far from astronomical for someone as highly qualified as all veterinary surgeons are

We shouldn't be ashamed of charging properly for our work

Wynne

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 16:01:33 GMT

And as I've said on that thread, it is best not to confuse charges with salary. Unless you consider your own overheads increase when you work overnight?

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 02 Nov 2010 15:39:38 GMT

Gillian Cross ref with remarks on plumbers and barristers in thread on veterinary locum accomodation-says it all !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wynne

Re: Vets fees up 12% in the last 12 months?

Mark Hedberg — Mon, 01 Nov 2010 22:25:19 GMT

Well, yes, but that can be a bit apples and oranges; Britain's average consult fee (this is just an out-of-my-hat example) might be too low to sustain a practice in London, but too high to sustain a practice in Northumbria. It's a fact, I freely admit, that we have to balance a business plan against "what everyone else is doing" to get an effective price for your local market.

(Yes, I know that surgeries may subsidize consult fees. Above was just an example of how difficult it is to use statistics to back our case.)