Why I'M banging my head off the wall tonight...

Re: Why I'M banging my head off the wall tonight...

Niall Taylor — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 23:09:30 GMT

[quote user="Vikki Halliday"]

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]I have always fancied a couple of Dexters - sweet little cows. [/quote]

Now I am really concerned about you Michael!

[/quote]

's'okay - just look at his avatar!

Niall

Re: Why I'M banging my head off the wall tonight...

Vikki Halliday LLB — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 22:43:15 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]I have always fancied a couple of Dexters - sweet little cows. [/quote]

Now I am really concerned about you Michael!

Re: Why I'M banging my head off the wall tonight...

Vikki Halliday LLB — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 22:42:15 GMT

[quote user="i am ed"]

A friend of mine used to work in the SVS. A lot of work apparently involved welfare visits to farms, generally in an advisory role - telling certain people to buck up their ideas I suppose. How they got the cases, whether reported through the RSPCA or from private vets, I don't know however.

[/quote]

As an ex SVS vet, the calls come from the general public in the main, sometimes via the RSPCA, and rarely if ever via veterinary surgeons. However they are not at all permitted to divulge the identity of the complainant to the individual investigated, and if anything else, may lead to an investigation of all aspects of the farm/smallholding, including passports, cattle ID and deadstock recording.

It is also true that the majority of these visits result in advice, however where an individual fails to heed that advice, or repeatedly breaches welfare legislation, prosecutions may result.

Infuriatingly for me, whenever I got a really poor welfare case, the policy advice was usually to maintain the "helpful" advice and monitoring for a period far longer than most veterinary surgeons would prefer, and even if we did put a case together for prosecution, often the Procurator Fiscal in Scotland would not take the case, as it has to be proved to be in the public interest to prosecute. The worst welfare case I ever had even did not reach court for welfare as most of the legislation at the time had a time bar, which passed before the individual could be charged. They were however prosecuted successfully over cattle ID regulations.

Often the welfare issue is just the tip of the iceberg, but as with other posts I would refrain from making any appraoch to DEFRA until you have spoken with the RCVS. I know what their answer is likely to be, and in your case, I suspect as you are not the registered practice, it may be best to acknowledge that the animal in question is no longer alive, therefore its suffering has ceased.

Re: Why I'M banging my head off the wall tonight...

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 20:39:35 GMT

[quote user="Wren"]On a side note: what is it with Dexters? I don't even think I'd heard of them when I graduated yet I had that cow yesterday, two to PD yesterday on a different farm, one to dehorn today and on Monday I get the delights of TB testing a whole herd of them followed by castrating and dehorning all the young males. I liken them to the Shetland ponies of the bovine world and they seem to be kept by very similar people.[/quote]

I'm really worried by your comment,

I have always fancied a couple of Dexters - sweet little cows.

Now what sort of person am I as I actually have 3 Shetland ponies? I'm not horsey!

Re: Why I'M banging my head off the wall tonight...

Louise6732 — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 18:59:29 GMT

Speaking of banging my head off the wall, I'm getting pretty fed up of people complaining that I won't dispense medications (especially antibiotics!) to their animals which I haven't seen for 6m+ (or even ever!) and that they'll have to pay a consult fee for the medications.

Yes, you will have to pay to see me because I'm not a charity, you're taking up an appointment slot and will be charged are such.

Prime example - client who we see very rarely turns up with a ferret with a cold. He is very cross that he has to come in to be seen and can't just have antibiotics because 'She get's this cold every year. She always has antibiotics. I've got 7 ferrets and they all get colds, can you give me antibiotics for the rest of them? Can't you give me a repeat prescription or something? I've had ferrets for years, I'm not being funny but I know more about ferrets than most people. I know it's got a cold'

Now, I have a short temper at the best of times, but I'd heard this arguement SO many times I 'politely' lost it:

I cannot give you antibiotics for animals I haven't seen. Antibiotics are not sweeties, they are serious medications which we need to respect (cringing now at the 'respect' line!)

Owner: Yeah I know that, but I've got 7 ferrets and 3 cats, I can't afford to bring them in each time just for you to say yep it needs tablets.

Me: Well that is what comes from owning so many animals, it's not cheap you do have to pay for things from time to time.

He was suprisingly fine when I explained I was only charging a half consult as I didn't do a lot with the ferret.

Sorry for the long rant, but it really really gets on my bits and pieces when people get animals and expect me not to charge them for consults/treatments/medication. Pets aren't essentials, they're luxuries. Sort it out!

Re: Why I'M banging my head off the wall tonight...

Edward Jones — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 14:35:06 GMT

If there's genuine welfare concerns I'd try to take it forward... but as Hannah suggests, definitely go through the proper channels! Personally, I wouldn't send a 'pay up or else' letter

Re: Why I'M banging my head off the wall tonight...

Wren — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 14:27:31 GMT

I have spoken to her today and sadly, after looking a lot better yesterday evening, the cow died overnight. However given that it may have been stuck upside down and hypocalcaemic for >24hrs (by her own admission) and it never actually managed to stand at any point, I'm not hugely surprised.

She was a lot more polite today, but my receptionist spoke to the vet from the other practice this morning and I get the impression that he may have given her a piece of his mind too. Surprisingly I checked with DEFRA and she is registered to keep cattle, has a holding number and is registered with the veterinary practice that she told me. Is it naive of me to think that a double-handed veterinary b*llocking may just have worked?

On a side note: what is it with Dexters? I don't even think I'd heard of them when I graduated yet I had that cow yesterday, two to PD yesterday on a different farm, one to dehorn today and on Monday I get the delights of TB testing a whole herd of them followed by castrating and dehorning all the young males. I liken them to the Shetland ponies of the bovine world and they seem to be kept by very similar people.

Re: Why I'M banging my head off the wall tonight...

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 13:53:42 GMT

This woman's level of "care " constitutes a criminal offence, but she is the sort to know all her "rights " (and none of her obligations ), so since the Gto PC advises us to contact Prof Con b4 reporting anyone, it might be best to do so-but don't expect them to be helpfull. Hope it's your w/e off-at least then you can drown your sorrows

Wynne

Re: Why I'M banging my head off the wall tonight...

Niall Taylor — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 22:45:36 GMT

[quote user="Wren"]Or is blackmail illegal now too? [/quote]

Just doing your civic duty surely

Niall

Re: Why I'M banging my head off the wall tonight...

Wren — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 20:58:18 GMT

I feel better already - must be the cathartic effects of writing it down!

I'm sure that it is illegal. We do quite a few letters in support of people who are making planning applications to put houses on uninhabited farms and our standpoint is always that it is essential for someone to be on the premises 24/7 during peak calving periods for animal welfare and to satisfy their legal obligations.

I shall send her bill out tomorrow whilst the iron's hot, wait a day or two for the inevitable complaint as the reason why she won't be paying it, then apply some gentle DEFRA/trading standards/RSPCA leverage with regards to settlement. Or is blackmail illegal now too?

Re: Why I'M banging my head off the wall tonight...

Edward Jones — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 19:33:00 GMT

Sounds like you did a good job for the cow in difficult circumstances.

Checking on calving cows every 2-3 days is almost certainly illegal under the Animal Welfare Act 2006. It might be worth talking to the RSPCA but I doubt there's much scope for action.

A stern letter outlining your concerns (along with details of how you administered life saving treatment), with copies to DEFRA and RSPCA may be in order?