How much for a broken hip?

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 22 Nov 2010 23:36:00 GMT

Anthony - your use of my quote was more than a little unfair, taken so massively out of context. I was making the point that the PDSA wasn't likely to be footing the 'bill', so therefore wasn't exempt from the normal rules of employment law. Not an excuse for making any old injury claim because insurance will cover it anyway!

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Anthony Todd — Mon, 22 Nov 2010 23:27:28 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]doesn't insurance cover this sort of thing anyway[/quote]

This is the basis of the compensation culture in one short sentence.

Not my money, so not my problem and now it's gone away and the settlement will be shared among next years premiums.

There must, sooner rather than later, be an overriding law of reasonable sense, applied at the instigation of the claim, rather like the preliminary hearing in an employment case.

Paths and paving are uneven. [unless someone has fallen because there is a large hole which has been there for 6 months]

Dogs may bite [unless it's bitten 5 people already and the owner is aware]

Buses stop suddenly [unless the driver was doing 60mph and was drunk]

etc.

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 22 Nov 2010 19:36:37 GMT

Slight side note on fluctuating lameness. Last year we were queueing up for an Easyjet flight in Naples and a woman walked into the terminal normally pulling her suitcases behind her quite happily. She then developed a sudden limp and requested assistance. Next thing she's being tansported in a wheelchair and gets priority seating at the front of the plane. At Gatwick the reverse occurs, then she collects her luggage and walks happily out to her waiting lift. I'll have to try that one next time, my knee brace I wear for skiing should convince them.

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 22 Nov 2010 17:31:57 GMT

The fraudsters will probably get away with it-because their GP will happily sign anything-with no risk of disciplinary action from the GMC !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wynne

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Laurence Webb — Mon, 22 Nov 2010 17:26:23 GMT

Our nurse saw a couple today that she thinks may be stretching the truth about the severity of an injury (fortunately we are not the target of any claim ourselves)

They walked in to her room, the man using a walking stick. Following seeing the nurse he strode out to the reception, seemingly sound on both legs, until his wife called out to him that he'd forgotten his stick. He limped back into the room to collect it. His wife confided to the nurse that he'd tripped on a pothole in the high street. 'Don't worry, we've been on to the council about it' she said.

Hmm, no win no fee InjuryLawyers4U? I'll look forward to that being added onto next years's council tax bill.

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Rob Reid — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 14:40:44 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]But how else can employers - whoever they are - be expected to toe the line unless there is punishment when they don't? The PDSA is just a business afterall - albeit funded by donations. (doesn't insurance cover this sort of thing anyway? )[/quote]

You make a good point and I don't see an easy answer. There is perhaps a solution in your post in that if you take away the insurance safety net, then it might encourage businesses to abide by the letter of the law. The problem with that however is that with Employment Law being so heavily in favour of the employee, the employer is then afforded no protection against the genuinely malicious complaint.

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Bob Russell — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 14:03:53 GMT

The temptation now a days is for insurance companies to look at potential legal costs involved in fighting a claim and balance that with the relatively sympathetic attitude tribunals tend to have towards the employee rather than the employer. Compensation from tribunals can be greater as well so insurance companies (other than VDS) tend to settle.

Last year we had a staff issue and I contacted our legal helpline and the clear message was 'do not allow it to go to a tribunal as you will automatically lose'. We sorted things out perfectly amicably as we had hoped but I wanted to know how we stood in case of problems.

If these things are settled out of court there is no open discussion and no ability for the insured to defend themselves.

It puts up our insurance costs so in the long-term everyone loses.

I don't know anything about the PDSA case so cannot comment!

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 11:28:58 GMT

But how else can employers - whoever they are - be expected to toe the line unless there is punishment when they don't? The PDSA is just a business afterall - albeit funded by donations. (doesn't insurance cover this sort of thing anyway? )

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Rob Reid — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 10:19:33 GMT

I wonder if we'll ever find out the true story!

What I was questioning was the ethics of taking £90k off a charity. Sure sue for constructive dismissal if you think you have been mistreated and win the case. But I would feel pretty bad about taking that money in the knowledge of what the charity would spend it on - at risk of getting slightly philospohical, is that not in violation of what our profession stands for?

I guess what my point is that for every winner, there are a number of losers. For these people who sue councils for tripping over cracks in the pavement and get settlements, that dent in the council budget prevents road repairs, a new school library or possibly jeopardises someones job.

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Malcolm Ness — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 08:31:56 GMT

Some conclusions are being jumped to here.

??Employee was a "bad-egg" and wanted to leave the job but decided to screw employer for a bit of malicious sport. ??PDSA is a charity so they should be exempt from employment law. Or is the suggestion that the PDSA are "good eggs" therefore above question, so the employee must be wrong. I do agree that to spend £90k (plus lots and lots of legal costs) on an employment dispute is not the best use of a charity's funds. However, at the risk of speculating one step too far: 1. You don't settle prior to a hearing unless you fear either disclosure or the chance of being asked to stump up even more. 2. Employment law is a nuisance but it is written down and relatively easy to follow - especially with appropriate legal advice - and you do have to go well "off-piste" to be at risk of losing that kind of money.

That's why I don't like these out of court settlements - they undermine the whole justice system, these are our laws and if they have been broken that should be followed through to its conclusion. It is one of the very few areas of life in this country where it is still considered socially acceptable overtly to interfere with due process and buy influence.

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Rob Reid — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 22:40:22 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]Does anyone know what the PDSA did to deserve an award of £90k??[/quote]

There was I recall, an article in the Vet Times around the time it went public which detailed a small portion of it. It was some sort of constructive dismissal case, I can't remember the ins- and outs- but I do recall my reaction at the time being "If you hated your job that much, why didn't you just, er, leave?"

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Rob Reid — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 22:37:26 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]The £90k went to a member of RCVS Council !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]

Precisely my point. Is it ethical for someone in such an elevated position to be taking this settlement from a charity? I am sure the thousands of people who regularly donate to the PDSA would have something to say...

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Rob Loxley — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 19:43:02 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]As an employer with more than a passing interest in employment law I followed this story quite carefully at the time yet I saw none of the facts reported - was there some sort of gagging order or was this an "out of court" deal with at least part of the settlement as "hush money".[/quote]

I think it was a settlement before it went to tribunal, no doubt with strict confidentiality clauses - 'hush money'.

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Malcolm Ness — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 18:45:47 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]The £90k went to a member of RCVS[/quote]

Does anyone know what the PDSA did to deserve an award of £90k??

As an employer with more than a passing interest in employment law I followed this story quite carefully at the time yet I saw none of the facts reported - was there some sort of gagging order or was this an "out of court" deal with at least part of the settlement as "hush money".

I might be reading too much into it but the gist of some of the previous posts seems to be that the employer, and not the employee was wronged in this instance. Perhaps others know more of this than I do.

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 17:31:42 GMT

Rob The £90k went to a member of RCVS Council !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob Definitely sue them We have it on the authority of another Rob (I'm getting confused with all these forms of Robert !!!!!!!!!!) that that wasn't a proper diagnosis,

Wynne

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Bob Russell — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 09:37:39 GMT

Sorry - yes a 'dustbin' diagnosis but when I went ar*e over t*t outside my daughters school last Christmas this is what they diagnosed at the local hospital. Must go back and get them to make a proper diagnosis. Should I sue them?

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Vikki Halliday LLB — Mon, 06 Sep 2010 23:22:42 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Which insurance company so I can find someone with the same policy then I will sprain my ankle?[/quote]

Apparently that is not a proper diagnosis...........to quote another thread.

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Rob Reid — Mon, 06 Sep 2010 21:45:18 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]Crazy world we live in.[/quote]

That's our litigation nation for you. I blame the Americans....

Nearly as bad as getting £90-odd-k from a well known animal charity for constructive dismissal. Now who would do a thing like that?

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 06 Sep 2010 17:31:06 GMT

Can you let me have your address, I could just do with £106,000...........

Crazy world we live in.

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Bob Russell — Mon, 06 Sep 2010 17:30:48 GMT

Bl**dy H*ll

Many years ago we had a heavy gate fall on a member of staff. The insurance company put up an amazing fight to stop a pay out for someone that really deserved it. She got bu**er all yet should have done.

Which insurance company so I can find someone with the same policy then I will sprain my ankle? Got to be worth £20K at least!!

Re: How much for a broken hip?

Mark Holmes — Mon, 06 Sep 2010 17:28:01 GMT

With a bit of luck she might leave it to her dog and you can get it back !