Cat dumped in bin video

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:51:11 GMT

Evelyn

Of course I admit the existence of mental illness, but I'm heartily fed up to the back teeth (and beyond ) of defence lawyers and other assorted "do-baders " using it as an excuse for simple bad behaviour

This woman is sufficiently sane to hold down a job in a bank. She knew she was doing wrong, else would not have looked round to see if she was observed-so she should be punished

Wynne

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Roberta Prina — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 16:56:27 GMT

[quote user="Martin Jones"]

[quote user="Roberta Prina"]

Well, I am sorry if you think that everybody has to agree with you. I have the right to express my opinion like everybody else in this forum

[/quote]

And there's the hat-trick.......

non sequitur

1. An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence.

2. A statement that does not follow logically from what preceded it.

[/quote]

It actually sounds perfectly logical to me.

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Martin Jones — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 15:27:04 GMT

[quote user="Roberta Prina"]

Well, I am sorry if you think that everybody has to agree with you. I have the right to express my opinion like everybody else in this forum

[/quote]

And there's the hat-trick.......

non sequitur

1. An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence.

2. A statement that does not follow logically from what preceded it.

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Bob Russell — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:33:19 GMT

things get worse I am afraid!!! This has appeared on the internet - I gather the cat involved is being questioned by Amnesty International.

There has been outrage among Human Rights organisations after a cat was seen dumping a 45 year old woman in a litter bin. The woman, Mary Bale, was effortlessly picked up by the moggy, shaken and unceremoniously dumped in the trash can in Coventry, where she was left to lie for over 12 hours until released by her own cat.

Mrs Bale, who is said to be recovering from the ordeal, says that she doesn't hate cats though she has now developed a fear of them and wets her pants every time her own cat enters the room.

To make matters worse, the cat responsible for this act of madness actually videoed the whole thing and posted the video on YouTube.

A local policeman said "It appears that a mobile phone camera may have been used and we would urge retailers not to sell these devices to felines, in case they are used to perpetrate more human happy-dumpings".

He went on to advise people in the neighbourhood that, until the cat is caught, if they go out at night, they should carry a flashlight and a book, just in case they get dumped in a trash can by a cat. "At least they will have something to read while they wait to be rescued."

A neighbour of Mrs Bale said "This used to be a friendly neighbourhood. Now that's all changed. I hope they find the cat who did this to Mary and stick him in a cell with a dog."

Sorry could not resist this one!!!

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Roberta Prina — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 11:57:48 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]

[quote user="Roberta Prina"]I have the right to express my opinion like everybody else in this forum[/quote]

Correct, but you don't have the right to misrepresent others or make out they have said something or adopted a view when they haven't...

[quote user="Roberta Prina"]Well, I am sorry if you think that everybody has to agree with you.[/quote]

Like that.

[/quote]

This is a vets forum! - I have yet to find many people that agree with each other!!! It is half the fun of it. Most posters almost by definition have strong views and if they are like me, they are always right even when they are wrong (according to my nurses!).

There is nothing like a good argument!

[/quote]

Indeed!

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Bob Russell — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 11:44:04 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]

[quote user="Roberta Prina"]I have the right to express my opinion like everybody else in this forum[/quote]

Correct, but you don't have the right to misrepresent others or make out they have said something or adopted a view when they haven't...

[quote user="Roberta Prina"]Well, I am sorry if you think that everybody has to agree with you.[/quote]

Like that.

[/quote]

There is nothing like a good argument!

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Niall Taylor — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 11:35:12 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]The cat strikes back!!![/quote]

Excellent!

Niall

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Niall Taylor — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 11:22:39 GMT

[quote user="Roberta Prina"]I have the right to express my opinion like everybody else in this forum[/quote]

Correct, but you don't have the right to misrepresent others or make out they have said something or adopted a view when they haven't...

[quote user="Roberta Prina"]Well, I am sorry if you think that everybody has to agree with you.[/quote]

Like that.

Niall

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Bob Russell — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 11:12:52 GMT

The cat strikes back!!!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/08/27/revenge-of-the-cat-video-shows-cat-dropping-middle-aged-women-into-wheelie-bin-115875-22517684/

Sorry it is in the Mirror - I promise I don't read it regularly. Daily Mail? Ah that's different!!!!

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Roberta Prina — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 10:30:27 GMT

[quote user="Martin Jones"]

And again with the non-sequitur. No attempt to stick to the points on offer, but a rather prurient implication that you - and only you - are the upholder of animal welfare in this debate and that I just don't care. Smashing.

[/quote]

Well, I am sorry if you think that everybody has to agree with you. I have the right to express my opinion like everybody else in this forum

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 18:07:07 GMT

Topcat always seemed happy

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Martin Jones — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:05:42 GMT

[quote user="Roberta Prina"]

[quote user="Martin Jones"]

An admirable sentiment, but we were discussing empathy, which implies an understanding of an individual's situation. For example, you have demonstrated - in my useless and ignorant opinion, of course - a tendency to gloss over the details of my posts and simply insert a non-sequitur that elevates your own position. This could demonstrate a failure to engage properly with an opposing viewpoint, an unwillingness to accept responsibility for your statements and a distinct lack of empathy. Does it actually do so?

[/quote]

I think you empathize more with the culprit than with the victim. I find obviously upsetting that some people have a terrible childhood, but I still don't want my own cat to be mistreated by anyone, no matter what his/her background is.

[/quote]

Just for the record, I'd view the difference between empathy and sympathy as walking a mile in someone else's shoes, against feeling sorry for them for having crappy shoes.

Martin

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Bob Russell — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 16:28:11 GMT

Is this lady more likely to be ill or just plain nasty? Where does lack of empathy become an illness?

I suspect this woman does not qualify as mentally ill but is just a nasty bit of work!! I suspect she is having a rather tough time at the moment and hopefully when charges are brought will have a tougher time!!

This seems to be an adequate punishment for being nasty!!!!!

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 16:18:12 GMT

[quote user="Martin Jones"]A woman stuffs a cat into a wheelie bin. A really nasty thing to do. I'm not sure that's up for argument. But assertion of guilt and a desire to punish someone severely, without knowing the full facts of the situation, because a telly programme puts thoughts into your head, well that's just lovely, isn't it?[/quote]

Nicely put.

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 16:16:08 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]A sick person has a tummy bug People who commit deliberate crimes like this are evil [/quote]

Wynne, don't you admit the existence of mental illnesses?

Personally, what I dislike is the tabloid journalist's habit of referring to anyone who does something foully wicked as "sick" (often as "evil" as well, sometimes in the same sentence) and then ranting for hanging and flogging 'em........... because they are sick? Eh?

"Evil", now.......... a word bandied about a lot. Would someone care to define "evil"?

Oh, and Hitler. (Ooops). He was a vegetarian and strongly against cruelty to animals. Was he loony? I don't think so, not at first anyway. Was he evil? It depends on your definition of evil.

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Roberta Prina — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 16:12:05 GMT

[quote user="Martin Jones"]

[quote user="Roberta Prina"]

I am sorry, but if I lacked sympathy, I wouldn't be in this profession

[/quote]

A woman stuffs a cat into a wheelie bin. A really nasty thing to do. I'm not sure that's up for argument. But assertion of guilt and a desire to punish someone severely, without knowing the full facts of the situation, because a telly programme puts thoughts into your head, well that's just lovely, isn't it?

Martin

[/quote]

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Martin Jones — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:58:06 GMT

In reply to utlendigur:

The NSPCC have also published this -

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/Inform/publications/Downloads/understandingthelinks_wdf48177.pdf

A lot of the evidence has come from studies in the USA, and whilst there aren't many reasons to doubt that much will apply over here, there has been some conflict in terms of interpretation of statistics - and the syllogisation which leads from premises such as 'child abusers tend to be animal abusers' to the conclusion that 'animal abusers tend to abuse children'. One of the most difficult issues seems to be in terms of making early detection more specific - which makes it all the more important that when we see animal abuse, we try to report it through official channels. This way, more causal factors can be identified. No doubt the media storm centring on Mary Bale will be trying to dig up anything that lurks there, such as previous convictions, mental health issues and general derogatory comments from 'friends' and neighbours. Such is the nature of things

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Martin Jones — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:45:19 GMT

[quote user="Roberta Prina"]

I am sorry, but if I lacked sympathy, I wouldn't be in this profession

[/quote]

Martin

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Utlendigur — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:12:06 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Niall I agree with you. It is a scientifically proven FACT that evil people who deliberately harm animals, often progress to harming children

Wynne

[/quote]

Not sure about harming children specifically, but there is a link to violent offending - RSPCA/Edinburgh University survey a few yrs ago

http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RSPCA/Page/RSPCAContentTemplate&cid=1110212502882&articleId=1190637812747

"animal abusers were around twice as likely as non-offenders to fall into the one of the three remaining categories of interpersonal violence. In fact, they were almost three times (13%) as likely as non-offenders (5%) to be high level persistent violent offenders."

"However, involvement in persistent and frequent animal abuse is associated with persistent and frequent interpersonal violence, representative
of a more entrenched culture of adolescent violence."

"Perhaps one of the most interesting features of the analysis presented in this report is that experience of general victimisation and bullying do not predicting later involvement in animal abuse."

"Early child maltreatment or neglect that was known to official agencies did not predict later involvement in animal abuse"

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Roberta Prina — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:54:03 GMT

[quote user="Martin Jones"]

[quote user="Roberta Prina"]

Is this woman's action somehow more acceptable because she is not likely to do it again or to progress to worse crimes?

[/quote]

No.

I haven't, by the way, suggested that this should be so; neither have I given the impression that I find animal cruelty acceptable in some way.

[quote user="Roberta Prina"]

May be it is because I watch 'Law & Order' too often, but I believe that if you do something wrong you should take your own responsibility for it. Even being abused as a child should not be an excuse

[/quote]

I see. Thank you for your opinion, and for the admission that your judgement is influenced by extrinsic factors, rather than through rigid objectivity and self-control. So, if I find your lack of empathy for sufferers of abuse horrifying, should I take into mitigation the fact that your views are coloured by a fictional television programme, and so reduce your responsibility for your actions accordingly?

Martin

[/quote]

I am sorry, but if I lacked sympathy, I wouldn't be in this profession

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Martin Jones — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:45:05 GMT

[quote user="Roberta Prina"]

Is this woman's action somehow more acceptable because she is not likely to do it again or to progress to worse crimes?

[/quote]

No.

I haven't, by the way, suggested that this should be so; neither have I given the impression that I find animal cruelty acceptable in some way.

[quote user="Roberta Prina"]

May be it is because I watch 'Law & Order' too often, but I believe that if you do something wrong you should take your own responsibility for it. Even being abused as a child should not be an excuse

[/quote]

Martin

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:35:25 GMT

Hear hear Roberta

Wynne

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Bob Russell — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:30:54 GMT

There was no direct injury inflicted just a total lack of consideration for another living creature. The lack of empathy is quite frightening. Her attitude and total lack of remorse is even more scary!

Has she got to her 50's without doing similar things? Will she learn not to do it again? Will she just be more careful to look for cameras next time?

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Roberta Prina — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 12:54:57 GMT

[quote user="Martin Jones"]

It's accepted, for example, that the majority of serial killers progress from animal abuse and killing to attacks on humans. However, the vast majority of animal abusers, particularly where the abuser is juvenile, are opportunistic and - as is possible in this woman's case - lacking in empathy rather than acting with deliberately evil intent. In short, serial killers start with animals, but animal abusers hardly ever become serial killers.

[/quote]

Is this woman's action somehow more acceptable because she is not likely to do it again or to progress to worse crimes?

May be it is because I watch 'Law & Order' too often, but I believe that if you do something wrong you should take your own responsibility for it. Even being abused as a child should not be an excuse: anyone who think has the right to harm living creatures should be stopped.

Re: Cat dumped in bin video

Martin Jones — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 12:20:24 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

It is a scientifically proven FACT that evil people who deliberately harm animals, often progress to harming children

[/quote]

Hannah,

Bit of a syllogism at play there, culminating in a rather bald statement.

I know that there are some pretty awful people out there, and that they do some dreadful things. But the evidence for links between animal and child abuse tends to fall into two major camps: that people who are abused as children are more likely to act out abuse on animals; and that people who perpetrate domestic violence may use pets as additional leverage to exert power. As abuse is often cyclical, in that the abused may go on to be an abuser, it's hard to distinguish between those for whom it is a symptom of often serious mental health problems, and those who just seem to want to do it.

For the record, in an animal abuse case with which I dealt, we were able to talk in confidence to social services, who confirmed that the family in question were well known to them and that certain measures were in place. The animal abuse was passive neglect; the nature of the child abuse was not divulged. The correlation was highly significant, but the animal abuse, whilst being highly sensitive as a predictor of other abuse in the home, was not particularly specific. Both adults in the household had learning difficulties and were pretty unsavoury. But evil? Not sure about that one. In control of their actions? Even less sure.

Personally, I think this lady needs some help from her local health services. That's not mutually exclusive with getting the book thrown at her, of course, but that's for someone else to decide.