To All Vets who Support Veterinary Nurses

Re: To All Vets who Support Veterinary Nurses

Rob Loxley — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:47:02 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]Bradford factor is calculated by multiplying the number of days off at each time by the square of the number of sickness episodes there have been. For example, an employee off sick for one genuine 3 week (15 working day) in one year. BF=15. Malingerer who takes 5 "sick Mondays" in the same year - BF is 1+4+9+16+25=55. Easy and reliable way of flagging up the staff who might not be "giving their all".[/quote]

Maybe I'm struggling with the maths, but should the BF in the latter not be 125 (5 [numbers of absences] squared times 5 [total days off in year])?

Re: To All Vets who Support Veterinary Nurses

Wren — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:06:24 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]

, I've had 2 days off in 15 years although I have gone into work bent double with back pain (and I do mean at 90 degress).

[/quote]

Oddly I'm from Yorkshire and am currently at work on a combination of 2 different NSAIDs, codeine and diazepam for a bad back that keeps shooting off down my legs. Doctor wanted to sign me off for a week but who would do my Thursday/Friday night and all weekend? I have to say that the cow caesar last night was a trial but I am on so many drugs that nothing seems to matter too much anymore - life is a rather pleasant haze ! (though I'm sure one of ths afternoon's clients thought I was drunk ).

Re: To All Vets who Support Veterinary Nurses

Anthony Todd — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:16:14 GMT

A nurse who worked for me for a long time, and is still a client said:

"When you work for Mr T and you're sick, you need a Death Certificate and then you'll only get two days off"

So, I think, my attitude is fairly clear.

And I worked in NZ with a vet , SF, who couldn't work because of a "bad back "but could concurrently waterski very well on a daily basis.........

The boss was suspicious.

Re: To All Vets who Support Veterinary Nurses

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 10:45:48 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="sandra taylor"]I also cant abide people who try to look busy when they are not! As vets you probably wont notice too much of that as I am sure everyones head is down and working when you are around, but us nurses see it![/quote]

hahahaha - we do see it. It is very obvious. There are some nurses who moan and groan with their efforts when mopping the floor - or start wiping some random surface when I'm in the room. Believe me, my nurses are judged on the place being spotless and running efficiently - animals well cared for, clean and happy, etc etc etc - not how hard they appear to be working when I'm there!

[/quote]

A cautionary tale for all male veterinary surgeons:

I confess to male weakness and the fact that us men have two very small brains between our legs and one even smaller one in our heads!. One exceedingly attractive nurse had numerous days off 'sick' with weak excuses sometimes under very dubious circumstances, exhibited all the work avoidance tactics mentioned and was very clever with it. I was blinded to her poor work ethic but the other nurses resented her even more because they saw how manipulative she was and thought I was showing favouritism due to her looks (as if!). I continually promoted her and gave her more responsibiity and incentives in the belief that she was bored and this would empower her but she just took more and more advantage. When she was promoted to head nurse she designed the nurses rota so she was doing very few long shifts or out of hours. I finally saw the light after the other nurses starting leaving, her behaviour became more bizarre and a hypodermic needle was found in the staff toilet after this girl had been in there. It was a shame because when she first started she was wonderfully enthusiastic and committed and when she was up to speed (whoops may be a pun there) she was a fantastic nurse and lovely intelligent person who won awards for her work. She clearly needed a stronger hand and like many others took advantage of the liberalism that exists in most veterinary practices.The moral is that vets should listen to their nurses when they complain and don't just assume they're being bitchy. But I can't help but feel that disillusionment after unreasonably high expectations and hard work for poor pay with few thanks has a lot to do with this and maybe we should all be looking at how we treat our nurses rather than moan when they don't clean the floor as well as we expect.

Re: To All Vets who Support Veterinary Nurses

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 20:46:47 GMT

Re: To All Vets who Support Veterinary Nurses

sandra taylor — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:42:57 GMT

I love the Bradford factor Malcolm.

The Nurses at our practice are rarely ill/off sick, we do tend to come to work with a head cold.... then spread it about a bit, after all it will only make you stronger I think the not wanting to let anyone down is a major factor. I have to say that the vets are never off either.

It's the receptionist we have a sick day problem with and I am sure using the Bradford factor on one would wipe it off the scale.

Anyway thankyou so far for the contributions. But keep them coming.

One of the things that annoys me as a nurse is a nurse who is lazy..., or one who clearly avoids certain tasks and "cherry picks" what they will do. I also cant abide people who try to look busy when they are not! As vets you probably wont notice too much of that as I am sure everyones head is down and working when you are around, but us nurses see it!

Re: To All Vets who Support Veterinary Nurses

Malcolm Ness — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:07:13 GMT

[quote user="stephen sargent"]'You were lucky, We used to DREAM of going to work with a broken leg...[/quote]

..........luxury. We didn't get enough sleep to have dreams.

Seriously though, a useful tool for monitoring sick in employees and identifying malingerers is a simple tool called the Bradford factor. Bradford factor is calculated by multiplying the number of days off at each time by the square of the number of sickness episodes there have been. For example, an employee off sick for one genuine 3 week (15 working day) in one year. BF=15. Malingerer who takes 5 "sick Mondays" in the same year - BF is 1+4+9+16+25=55. Easy and reliable way of flagging up the staff who might not be "giving their all".

Re: To All Vets who Support Veterinary Nurses

Mark Holmes — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:22:00 GMT

I don't know about Martin but I am in fact a Yorkshire man so we might be closer than you think, bring me mi flat cap an t' whippet am of to t'crikit

Re: To All Vets who Support Veterinary Nurses

stephen sargent — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:34:02 GMT

This is starting to sound a bit like Monty Pythons Yorkshiremen. 'You were lucky, We used to DREAM of going to work with a broken leg...'

Re: To All Vets who Support Veterinary Nurses

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:44:19 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]

I would have to agree with the illness part, although I think it applies to vets as much as nurses, an individuals work ethic when it comes to illness is very variable

[/quote]

Never employed any vets so I don't know and self-employment is a great panacea but at risk of sounding like the stereotypical grumpy old man I've never had a day off through sickness in 35 years (even when I was employed - even more so because I didn't want to let anyone else down) and the only time I've had off is from self-inflicted injury (broken bones from sports) and even then I came in on crutches with a fractured tibia asap and took the cast off a fractured radius so I could work (OK I'll admit it was plated and the cast was only the belt and braces but I had dislocated my wrist as well)! The surgeon asked how much longer I wanted to be signed off for when I went for a check after one week and was amazed when I gave him a confused look and said I'd been back at work since the day after surgery! In the words of the Stranglers: 'Whatever happened to the heroes'? (Or maybe it should be Tina Turner: 'We don't need another hero'.)

Re: To All Vets who Support Veterinary Nurses

Mark Holmes — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:22:27 GMT

I would have to agree with the illness part, although I think it applies to vets as much as nurses, an individuals work ethic when it comes to illness is very variable, I've had 2 days off in 15 years although I have gone into work bent double with back pain (and I do mean at 90 degress). Others are sick at a sniffle, or an ache or a pain or a stiff neck or whatever. Rarely are people sick enough that they cannot do anything even if it is just sitting to do insurance forms.

Re: To All Vets who Support Veterinary Nurses

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:02:10 GMT

I assume as you have written Veterinary Nurses as opposed to veterinary nurses you mean qualified. If so I'd agree with everything Gillian said but I don't employ qualified VNs anymore I prefer to train them myself, I believe to an equally high standard, but I don't discourage them if they want to move on and follow the path to qualification.

To add to the making more attractive list: pride in personal appearance (some can be very scruffy) and the ability to come to work with minor illnesses like I have to! That may be a bit tongue in cheek but the single most annoying thing in my nurses is them not realising that simply feeling unwell is not a reason to have a day off. And before someone thinks out loud that maybe they have time off because I'm a crap boss, most of my nurses stay for at least 4 years and some for 12-13 so I cant be that much of an ogre.

Re: To All Vets who Support Veterinary Nurses

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:32:23 GMT

Ideally:

qualified
excellent communication skills
empathy
initiative
self motivation
and not to be underestimated - generally friendly, team player who is happy to be doing their job - even the horrid bits.

To make them more attractive:

Taking responsibility for themselves ie/doing a good job whether the boss is around to take notice or not. (Most do, a significant proportion don't.)
Having a better understanding of what makes a practice work ie/ practice economics,
Less moaning!!! ()

As far as I am aware, there are sufficient post-qualifications already, but it isn't an area I know a great deal about.

Well, that's my opinion anyway.......