Fallout from Panorama programme

Re: Fallout from Panorama programme

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:21:54 GMT

Glancing over the frontpage article in Vet Times (I did it that honour) I was particularly depressed by the official BVNA spokesman towards the end. It's been a surprise to find that there are intelligent veterinary surgeons and qualified nurses who believe that if it's on the telly it must be true.

Re: Fallout from Panorama programme

Bob Russell — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:28:29 GMT

According to the front page of Vet Times 'UK veterinary organisations have come out in force , voicing disappointment at the 'unacceptable and disgraceful' conduct revealed in Panorama'.

My practice is miles from a Medivet practice, I am not a fan of 'chains, franchises or corporates', in fact I hate the idea that this is how the profession is going but they showed three or four short, edited film of poor practice filmed over nine months in a number of busy practices. I cannot guarantee that someone filming in my practice could not find occasional occurrences that, taken out of context could be made to look bad.

Where is the innocence until proved guilty? Kfir Segev was investigated, found guilty and punished - correctly IMHO. No further investigation of that issue required. The RCVS found the practices satisfactory for them to qualify for the PSS so perhaps they should be looking at their position in all this before blanket condemnation.

I am not defending the things seen in the programme but nor am I trying to condemn those involved until a full and thorough investigation has been carried out.

Re: Fallout from Panorama programme

J G Wray — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:07:43 GMT

Since the program we have had a number of patients who have been difficult to restrain for blood testing , intra-nasal vaccination and chemotherapy.

My nurses have taken to saying "We should be filming this....." when we have been involved in The Great Struggle and this am they anticipated a problem and asked "Are wo going to need to film this patient?"

It's a kind of humour

JGW

Re: Fallout from Panorama programme

J G Wray — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:00:26 GMT

[quote user="phipps"]

[quote user="Jonathan Wray"]written by a fully voted up RCVS Council member[/quote]

I think you will find that Mr Nel was unsuccessful in the RCVS council elections and is, in fact, not a member of the RCVS council.

http://www.rcvs.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=6306949

[/quote]

Mea culpa. Hands up. Apologies. Sorry for misleading one and all. Mr Nel is not a RCVS Council member. He was and may still be an aspiring candidate and continued in the RCVS "race" when he knew Medivet was under the microscope, but there is no evidence these two things were linked.

JGW

PS that was a pretty abject and please note, instant and unequivocal apology

Re: Fallout from Panorama programme

Glen McIntosh — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:07:29 GMT

[quote user="Jonathan Wray"]written by a fully voted up RCVS Council member[/quote]

I think you will find that Mr Nel was unsuccessful in the RCVS council elections and is, in fact, not a member of the RCVS council.

http://www.rcvs.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=6306949

Re: Fallout from Panorama programme

J G Wray — Tue, 27 Jul 2010 23:44:01 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]Because they were not ![/quote]

Really?

http://www.medivet.co.uk/news_view.asp?id=115

Mentions Hendon , Stanmore, South Harrow, Watford and Kenton practices and is written by a fully voted up RCVS Council member i.e beyond reproach and, handily, a Medivet partner as well.

http://www.rcvs.org.uk/FindAVet

is the RCVS Find a vet service

Have a little search and see what you come up with.

JGW

Re: Fallout from Panorama programme

bob lehner — Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:50:11 GMT

[quote user="Jonathan Wray"]

[Incidentally, no one on this forum has reflected on the practices featured in the program being PSS practices. Why's that?

JGW

[/quote]

Because they were not !

Re: Fallout from Panorama programme

J G Wray — Tue, 27 Jul 2010 15:50:25 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]JGW, inadvertently you seem to have illustrated how something can be taken out of context. Most of what you are quoting from was prefaced by an introduction in which I said that there has been little fallout beyond Medivet, but that perhaps it is a good time to reflect on some of the issues the programme raises.[/quote]

Life is full of injustices, and selective editing for a TV progam is one and selective quotation from commentary another. How apologetic have Panorama been, 'cos I'll happily be just as apologetic? You have experience of all this in pr and can probably deal with it.

Incidentally, no one on this forum has reflected on the practices featured in the program being PSS practices. Why's that?

JGW

PS I still haven't been asked

Re: Fallout from Panorama programme

Rob Reid — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:45:48 GMT

We've not had one client mention it yet.

To sum it up, my bosses came back from a few days holiday today (they saw the programme) and we spent more of our morning coffee time discussing last night's Top Gear than we did Panorama!

Definitely agree that reflection on the programme and the issues raised is appropriate though, shouldn't just be swept under the carpet.

Re: Fallout from Panorama programme

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:25:14 GMT

[quote user="Jonathan Wray"]Yup, calm down and get a sense of proportion.[/quote]

Maybe I'm having a bad day. Maybe that's why your post reads particularly patronisingly. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way.

JGW, inadvertently you seem to have illustrated how something can be taken out of context. Most of what you are quoting from was prefaced by an introduction in which I said that there has been little fallout beyond Medivet, but that perhaps it is a good time to reflect on some of the issues the programme raises.

I stand by that sentiment. 'Reflection' to my mind is a calm process. I think calm reflection is proportionate.

Re: Fallout from Panorama programme

Bob Russell — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:17:55 GMT

Not even mentioned here!

Re: Fallout from Panorama programme

J G Wray — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:06:21 GMT

Who wrote:

Try saying that to one of the vets or nurses at Medivet who have been at the receiving end of death threats

After all, people's careers are at stake here.

How on earth did that happen? How did one of the biggest veterinary groups come to be at loggerheads with the regulator on TV?

Can the profession afford, any longer, to leave so much to the discretion of the individual, or is it time to demand a more prescriptive regulatory environment?

That's death, careers, incredulity and a "demand" all because of a TV programme, which is already yesterday's news.

Yup, calm down and get a sense of proportion.

JGW

Re: Fallout from Panorama programme

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:40:31 GMT

Only one person has mentioned it to me. They asked if I saw the programme as they had seen a trailer. I said I had, they'd watched something else!

Re: Fallout from Panorama programme

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:47:07 GMT

[quote user="Jonathan Wray"]There's a sense of proportion and calm which needs to be brought into play here.[/quote]

Seems to me, certainly from all the discussion there has already been in the forums, that the response was always proportionate and calm. i.e. I 'm not sure why you're calling for calm, when things seem pretty calm anyway

Re: Fallout from Panorama programme

J G Wray — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:16:51 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Try saying that to one of the vets or nurses at Medivet who have been at the receiving end of death threats.[/quote]

There are certainly some loopy people out there who appear to be susceptible to media amplified suggestion, but should I feel any more empathy/sympathy than I have always felt for those vets/nurses/technicians involved in cutting edge research, who have been intimidated by Animal Rights people - or those in practice who are threatened daily by drunks/drug users/unpleasant members of the public?

This episode is not Shipman. There's a sense of proportion and calm which needs to be brought into play here.

JGW

Re: Fallout from Panorama programme

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:45:11 GMT

[quote user="Jonathan Wray"]What was the fuss about?[/quote]

Try saying that to one of the vets or nurses at Medivet who have been at the receiving end of death threats.