Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 28 Sep 2010 16:07:03 GMT

Malcolm I wish my computer skills were up to Gillian's I can't work out how to add more than 1 smiley!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wynne

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 28 Sep 2010 12:22:55 GMT

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Malcolm Ness — Mon, 27 Sep 2010 20:51:49 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Sandy Y our resentment against private school girls is a bit OTT[/quote]

I don't think that it is resentment, he is just really, really annoyed that when he went through university, the majority of his class mates were knuckle-dragging, rugby playing agricultural males. Nowadays there is so much posh totty that even Sandy might be in with a chance.

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 27 Sep 2010 18:02:27 GMT

Sandy Y our resentment against private school girls is a bit OTT

Troy I've wondered how they're all going to find work It would be better if the veterinary schools accepted fewer students, quizzed them on their attitudes to OOH at interview, and gave them the practical tuition they need to hit the ground running

Wynne

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Tory — Mon, 27 Sep 2010 12:29:11 GMT

[quote user="Mike Martin"]

BUT, vets all have jobs. We are very lucky to be in a profession in which redundancies are not just around the corner. Our average pay is still much higher than the national average, despite all those negatives.

[/quote]

While we were interviewing this summer we had vets apply who qulaified last summer & hadn't yet had a job & that's without Nottingham adding to the pool yet. So I don't think it's guaranteed work anymore. Our graduate from last year had a number of friends who took 6m or more to find work.

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

MeeraM — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 20:57:09 GMT

[quote user="Sandy Edwards"]

[quote user="MeeraM"]the hard graft stuff. If you can stick it and you like what you see - spend the A level years working hard to get the required grades. And in the meantime; if you can find a few orphans to help, a mountain or two to climb, play an instrument to Grade 8 and casually create a few works of art, that ought to clinch it on the UCAS form :)[/quote]

You mean go to private girls school then

[/quote]

:bash:

I was not taught to help orphans (or climb mountains) at my very expensive single-sex private school, I'll have you know. I had to *sniff* learn those things the hard way (although Daddy's credit card helped to fund my hotel accommodation). But tales of spending my Easter hols skiing, knocking back ginger beers and generally having a very Rah time wasn't something I could fit on to my personal statement.

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Sandy Edwards — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 21:44:33 GMT

You mean go to private girls school then

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 03 Aug 2010 15:11:14 GMT

I never wanted to be anything other than a veterinary surgeon. I never will want to be anything but a veterinary surgeon. I don't mind the hours. I enjoy owning my own practice, so I would say "go for it ". Curing sick animals is the most satisfying job in the world

Having said that, the downside is ungrateful clients/low fees-one and the same really. It would be perfect if we only had to treat the animals, and the middle-men (owners) were taken out of the equation

We didn't have the student debt problem when I qualified, but jobs were very scarce, became plentiful, and are now becoming scarcer again. At least todays 15 year old girls can't be told "Not a suitable job for a woman "

Wynne

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Mark Holmes — Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:04:21 GMT

I think the paradox of being a vet is whilst is is better career than some, for those who have the ability to get the A levels and commitment to get into college, the determination to get through the course and thay staying power to do the work on the other side, whilst they might do ok (with some luck), they would do bl**dy well in something else.

Why am I not a dentist?

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Richard Carter — Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:56:01 GMT

A gardener - mmm - definitely grass will be greener. Sounds good - where do I sign?

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

james hunt — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 17:55:37 GMT

I wonder how the RCVS are getting on with the analysis of their 'happiness' survey, which accompanied the 'manpower' (surely that should be personpower these days?) survey earlier this year.

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Bob Russell — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 15:46:10 GMT

Good change of direction - I think we have all said enough to this poor 15 year old who is now going off to be a postman or a gardner or a......

Is it a good time to start a thread about where the profession is going and how do we change it so this 15 year old has a good job after finally deciding to ignore our cries of don't do it?

Shall I start a new post? Yes I will!!!!

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 15:11:10 GMT

I think this thread is being done to death, so I'm going to change track slightly. I'm not convinced that there is no place for setting up your own sole charge practice these days, the cost of property is certainly one barrier, but a vet near me has set up and is doing very well - however this links into my next observation. We have to ask why are we apparenly under-remunerated? I've seen the profession go from grossly undervaluing itself (my mentor the late and great Wyn Griffith Jones called it a Cinderella profession) through a period of sustained growth and sensible charging structures so we were almost on a par with comparable professions. Now we're starting to implode again with shots to our own feet. My client base has been steadily eroded over the past few years largely due to decreasing pet ownership and increasing competition. I learned to adapt to that and in line with most others steadily increased my charges and value per customer to compensate. But I have not been able to increase my charges at all for the past 3 years indeed I've had to decrease many but my overheads don't go down commensurably. Why? Because of increased corporatisation and big practices squeezing out the little guy for sure but the aforementioned competitor up the road has come in charging little more than half my fees for his headline services. Is that the penalty for setting up on your own now? Client loyalty, as it is in most other walks of life, is a thing of the past and naturally they're going to go to the cheapest, they just assume that we all provide the same service and that I must therefore be ripping them off if I charge more (even though in the long term my fees are more realistic). Add to this the rise of cherry picking vaccination & neuter clinics, the internet pharmacy taking away substantial parts of our income and pharmaceutical companies steathily putting previously vet-only products into the shops to the improve their own bottom line and this is a classical case of killing the goose that lays the golden egg. I do despair to some extent for the future. I can hear the doom mongerers in this thread say, 'I told you so', but for the good of the whole profession we all need to take back the reigns and not be scared to charge realistically for our work once more. Sadly there will always be those who see a way to short term profit and potentially will ruin it for the rest of us but they should remain the minority not the way of the future. I still believe this is the best job in the world and I have no regrets over the path I've taken but I'm equally happy that I am close enough to retirement age to walk away if I want to, albeit to live in not quite the style I once imagined I could.

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Colin Cameron — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 14:45:39 GMT

After reading the moans, groans and negative comments I'm surprised anyone would want to be a vet. Ye gods ! half of you must be leading such miserable lives, always expecting the worst!! What about some positive encouraging comments, just for a change. I would still advise young people that this is a great profession and a damn good job!!!!!

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Rob Loxley — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 13:36:10 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]I cannot with a clear concience advise them to enter a profession that pays younger members (and some older ones!) insufficient wages to even buy a small house.[/quote]

That's more a result of the current state of the UK housing market rather than the veterinary profession per se, IMHO. My contemporaries who are teachers, civil servants, doctors etc. are all struggling to buy houses first time on their own (i.e. without major financial input from a partner or parents) as well.

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Bob Russell — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 12:57:23 GMT

If you look at the posts I think you will find that it is the newer graduates that are having problems. It is great to be your own boss and it is something I do not regret. Unfortunately with larger numbers of graduates and a shrinking market if everyone chose to start their own business the profession would implode. There is only a certain number of practices that the market can support.

The OP was what advice would you give a 15yr old wishing to become a vet. The practicalities of careers advice has been given by some posters and the thread has, to a certain extent been 'hijacked' but this is what discussions are about!

I do not see, within the posts any sign that people are not enjoying the job but do see the pressures some vets are under and these are likely to get worse over the next few years.

I do not read posts as complaining directly about below average pay but more the potential inabilities for vets to make ends meet. This may be as a result of lack of secure jobs or poor pay and conditions.

When I qualified the numbers of vets trained were controlled to meet the needs of the profession. Now it seems to be a free for all.

By all means encourage youngsters to consider the profession but make sure that they know the downside as well so an informed decision can be made. Perhaps we need to get them to sign a disclaimer as well!!!

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 12:22:26 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]my family would almost certainly have prefered me to be a GP. I would have come home before 7pm each night[/quote]

How about the comparison between newly graduated vets and newly graduated doctors? You speak as though the training time is equal - but we are immediately qualified after Uni whereas doctors have a lot more years of long hard graft and studying to do before they become a GP. I married and started a family before I was 27 - this would have been almost impossible if I'd wished to become a GP. I also know a GP very well who missed all her children's school events (and regrets that bitterly) as there was no option to leave work for an hour or two during the working day in the early stages of her career. I realise all practices are different, but I think there is possibly more flexibility in a vets than in a GP surgery?

Personally I'm amazed at the amount of people who seem to spend their days doing a job they no longer enjoy or feel adequately compensated for. What is stopping them doing something else????? A Vet degree will be perfectly adequate for a lot of other jobs - it doesn't restrict you to private practice. It appears to me that everyone agrees that being a vet, on the whole, is great - it's just that they want to be a vet 9 - 5 and get paid twice as much. Oh, and have a nice boss. How does that differ from any other job you may choose to do?

As far as fitting motherhood around work - we've exhausted that discussion in another thread but I really think that it is no different for vets than for any other professional. Even my sister, who is a secondary school teacher and who you would think would be more able to work childcare around returning to work, has found it impossible. Why? Because teachers don't get to walk out of the door at 3.30pm and the cost of childcare is prohibitive on a teacher's wage.

At least vet's get the option to be their own boss whenver they want to - and therefore make their own rules. I did that at 28 so maybe that's why I'm happier in my career?

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Bob Russell — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 11:26:50 GMT

Of course the grass is always greener on the other side. On one of the posts on this forum someone showed a calculation comparing vets income with a GP and over a lifetime a GP will earn a million pounds more than a vet!!

This is not an argument that can be put into purely financial terms - I would much rather be a vet than a GP, but my family would almost certainly have prefered me to be a GP. I would have come home before 7pm each night, had money to pay the mortgage and credit cards, taken holidays in the sun etc.

This is a caring profession that needs to start taking more care of its own.

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 10:39:41 GMT

If only it was that simple for some of us.

First, you have to deal with bosses who may be immoral, unethical or just plain bullies. Then if you have a family, then you need to find a job that is flexible enough to work around them and pays enough to cover the childcare to make it worthwhile going back to work.

These are both issues that I never dreamt of having to contend with when I was 15 ( or even when I was newly graduated). I'm not sure someone telling me about them would have made any difference to the choices I made back then, but I certainly wouldn't do it all over again.

And I'm another one who wouldn't encourage my children do go down this road.

Jacq

My word - the grass is always greener on the other side. This isn't a personal dig at you Jacg it applies to all the doubters, but what makes you think it would be better in any other caring profession? My children didn't want to be vets but I didn't influence them either way.

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Bob Russell — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 10:08:20 GMT

We never try to put youngsters off the profession but we do our best to give them an idea of the realities of life.

Everyone in our practice is highly motivated to do their best and there is a lot of laughter in our working day (some tears as well). We also emphasise the realities of veterinary life.

We are obviously a good advert for the profession despite all this as we have not managed to put a single person off joining the profession as vet or vet nurse!

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Bob Russell — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 09:57:42 GMT

I think very highly of my profession, I am proud of what I do and what we achieve. We have a happy work place, great clients and patients.

I do however value my children even more!

I cannot with a clear concience advise them to enter a profession that pays younger members (and some older ones!) insufficient wages to even buy a small house.

I fear for the next generations of vets.

Negative? Obviously - I am alright thanks but this thread is about future vets, not me!

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Jacquin Mitchell — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 09:47:21 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]If your motivation was to be in a profession involving animals and the satisfaction of using your training and skills to treat them; you're in the best job in the world. [/quote]

If only it was that simple for some of us.

And I'm another one who wouldn't encourage my children do go down this road.

Jacq

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 09:32:22 GMT

[quote user="Colin Cameron"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

I thank my lucky stars my children do not want to be vets.

[/quote]Do you really think so little of this profession?

[/quote]

I think it is very sad that so many of such a small sample of the profession on this forum, whom by definition almost are probably more than averagely motivated, have such reservations. In the more humorous thread recently, on what we would do if we weren't vets, the views seemed more positive and although I rather glibly stated I would like to have been a professional racing cyclist, it was a fantasy, and there is nothing that I would rather have done and nothing I would change if I had my time over again (apart from being blessed with Lance Armstrong's physique)! Sure its not a bed of roses but what is? Pity those who are disillusioned because they're not paid as much as they think they're worth and those who thought it wouldn't be hard work or stressful. The proverb relating to kitchen temperature comes to mind. If your motivation was to be in a profession involving animals and the satisfaction of using your training and skills to treat them; you're in the best job in the world. So stop whinging and encourage the youngsters, don't put them off, tell them what a great profession this is if their expectations are set at the correct level,

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Colin Cameron — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 23:38:45 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

I thank my lucky stars my children do not want to be vets.

[/quote]Do you really think so little of this profession?

Re: Advice for a 15 year old wanting to be a vet?

Clive Ansell — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 22:48:37 GMT

I think I would offer this young lady words of support, but try and encourage her to keep her options open and to be aware of what being a vet really entails. If she wants an easy and/or extravagant lifestyle then forget it straight away, become a lawyer, work in banking, open a nail bar etc. In our profession the renumeration certainly does not match the level of training, stress, hours, commitment and hard work involved.

When she qualifies in around 10 years time, I feel it will be a grim place for new graduates; with record levels of student debt, too many graduates and too few positions thus driving down salaries, and working conditions already set to be eroded under the new CON-DEM government. This will not be helped by the increasing corporatism/Tesco-isation of the profession where balance sheets will come before professionalism or staff well being.