When did you spay your own bitch?

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 16:34:17 GMT

I was only being mischievous. Their profile stated that they were in mixed practice, mainly LA, so I can assume they do a very small amount of SA work....

I wasn't meaning to be argumentative - as far as I am concerned, one is enough.....

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Colin Cameron — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 14:04:32 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]being in mixed practice, perhaps you haven't seen enough mammary carcinomas and pyos yet......[/quote]

What has being in mixed practice got to do with it.? It dependes on your case load. And anyway how many is "enough"?

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Colin Cameron — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 13:59:15 GMT

[quote user="Hanna Bennett"]really?[/quote]Yes really! Apart from very fat ones where it can be a bit of a fiddle but not really difficult.

[quote user="Hanna Bennett"]so I feel safer pulling on the ligament - i have on occasion pulled on the ligament in fat older bitches only to find i've torn it completely as the fat is so friable[/quote]In very fat bitches or where the pedicle is quite short I cut the very edge of the ligament to release the tension before lifting the ovary for ligation. Seems to avoid the tearing you decribe.

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Hanna Bennett — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:49:11 GMT

[quote user="Colin Cameron"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Spaying is much easier at 6 months [/quote]

Can't say I find much difference.

[/quote]

really? before they have a season the uterus is often small, like a cat's in some dogs. Granted the ovaries may be a little tighter, but there is less fat in the ligament so I feel safer pulling on the ligament - i have on occasion pulled on the ligament in fat older bitches only to find i've torn it completely as the fat is so friable - horrid feeling to be stood with the ovary fully out of the abdomen and the blood vessel still in the abdomen! Thankfully somehow they seem not to bleed, but still not a fun experience.

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

sophia guymer — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 19:12:43 GMT

[quote user="Wren"]

Should I be struck off? :-p

[/quote]

No but in my opinion you may need your head examining for putting up with the mess of seasons all the time(mind I have never had a bitch so not quite sure how much of a mess it is) and fighting off the intact males, the worry of pregnancy and pyometras??

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 15:51:18 GMT

Not quite struck off maybe - but, being in mixed practice, perhaps you haven't seen enough mammary carcinomas and pyos yet......

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Wren — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 14:55:19 GMT

My last bitch I speyed at 11yrs old when she looked like she might be getting a pyo. The two current ones are unspeyed (aged 7 and 10) following criminal procrastination over having puppies.

Should I be struck off? :-p

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Jacquin Mitchell — Sun, 20 Jun 2010 00:08:54 GMT

[quote user="Laurence Webb"]

[quote user="Jacquin Mitchell"]Now I just have to endure 10 days of lead exercise.

[/quote]

I think you're confused. It's the dog that needs to be kept on the lead, not you.

[/quote]

Maybe, but as I have to be holding one end, I'm suffering as much as she is.

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Laurence Webb — Sat, 19 Jun 2010 22:18:16 GMT

[quote user="Jacquin Mitchell"]Now I just have to endure 10 days of lead exercise.

[/quote]

I think you're confused. It's the dog that needs to be kept on the lead, not you.

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Colin Cameron — Sat, 19 Jun 2010 19:33:26 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Spaying is much easier at 6 months [/quote]

Can't say I find much difference.

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Jacquin Mitchell — Tue, 15 Jun 2010 18:23:27 GMT

Thanks everyone. She's home sans reproductive tract and completely spaced out on pain relief.

Now I just have to endure 10 days of lead exercise.

Jacq

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 15 Jun 2010 18:19:51 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]The only restriction on neutering age in dogs or cats is the practicality of anaesthesia and the size of the surgeons hands.[/quote]

Except for considering perhaps the (previously mentioned) published study on increased incidence of osteosarcoma in animals neutered under 1yr of age as opposed to over 1yr, or published studies on urinary incontinence and hip dysplasia all comparing 'early' vs. 'traditional' age neutering?

[/quote]

I did say in relation to urinary incontenance, 'in my experience' which means animals I have neutered so this is 35 years of experience, but I would also say the same regarding osteosarcoma and HD and point to a previous comment in this thread on the validity of this research relating to increased weight which is a controllable factor. In any event there is a risk/benefit analysis here which IMO comes down firmly in favour of early neutering.

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Rob Loxley — Tue, 15 Jun 2010 17:26:20 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]The only restriction on neutering age in dogs or cats is the practicality of anaesthesia and the size of the surgeons hands.[/quote]

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 15 Jun 2010 16:53:21 GMT

The only restriction on neutering age in dogs or cats is the practicality of anaesthesia and the size of the surgeons hands. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that spaying bitches before a season eliminates the risk of mammary adenocarcinoma, there's also less risk of haemorrhage, the patient recovers more rapidy, it takes less time and costs less or makes you more profit depending how you view it. I my experience there is no increased risk of urinary incontenance other than that related to the ham-fistedness of the surgeon. So the moral is: size is everything (small hands that is).

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Colin Cameron — Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:50:22 GMT

I have noticed that a few vets seem to be using "early neutering" as marketing ploy. Is this really in the best interests of the animals and is this yet another example of purse over patient?

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Colin Cameron — Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:43:13 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Is it spay or spey one wonders

[/quote] It can be used with either spelling ! It's a bit like grey and gray. I use spey as it was they way I was taught at vet school many years ago so is probably the older spelling (I believe it comes from the french meaning to cut, but correct me if I am mistaken.)

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Bob Russell — Tue, 15 Jun 2010 11:01:51 GMT

Is it spay or spey one wonders

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Rob Loxley — Mon, 14 Jun 2010 22:24:19 GMT

[quote user="Jacquin Mitchell"]I think I'd prefer her to have a season[/quote]

Why? The answer to this seems to be the answer to your question.

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Vikki Halliday LLB — Mon, 14 Jun 2010 22:20:49 GMT

At the risk of brickbats, I spayed mine at 7 years old, after her last litter. And she bled and bled and bled on the table, always happens to your own doesn't it?

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

sophia guymer — Mon, 14 Jun 2010 21:37:23 GMT

Never had a bitch, but spoke to my boss today on the subject as my brother in laws bitch got spayed recently at 4 months old which I thought was rather far too early but my boss actually did her own dog at 4 months (mind, she did have vaginal bleed which she hoped would stop after spaying, they didn't turned out to be pasteurella infection and after local abc flushes she stopped bleeding).

Still, if I was you I would have her spayed now!

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 14 Jun 2010 19:29:45 GMT

Border collie, spayed at 5 1/2 months, no regrets. Didn't even consider letting her have a season - would have been a pain in the a**e !!!!

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Vikki Halliday LLB — Mon, 14 Jun 2010 18:32:16 GMT

[quote user="Colin Cameron"]a group of very wise vets discussed the matter in great detail and concluded that absolutely the best time to spey any bitch was 11.00am after coffee!!! [/quote]

Agree entirely!

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Colin Cameron — Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:19:26 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]I recommend speying before their first season ie around 6months old- definitely much easier to perfrom and they recover much more quickly.[/quote]

Can't agree with this ! I find no difference in ease of speying whatever the age and recovery seems equally rapid at all ages. I think it depends much more on the anaesthetic protocol used and the skill of the surgeon. I prefer to spey after first season as I feel it matures the dog better but this is only my impression. The first season should eliminate the risk of infantile vulva, only slightly increase the risk of mammary neoplasia and may reduce the frequency iof urinary incontinence later in life, but there is a paucity of evidence as far as I can see to support this. I do not agree with the routine neutering of animals at 8-12 weeks of age ( personal opinion). A few years ago however there was a great debate in the Veterinary Record about this topic which raged for weeks until a group of very wise vets discussed the matter in great detail and concluded that absolutely the best time to spey any bitch was 11.00am after coffee!!! Nuff said!

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

emerald — Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:19:11 GMT

[quote user="Jacquin Mitchell"]If you have a bitch, when did you get her spayed?[/quote]

Got my bitch done when she was 6 months old.

Re: When did you spay your own bitch?

Kate Richardson — Mon, 14 Jun 2010 16:54:26 GMT

[quote user="Rudolph"]

I'm going to go off topic so apologies in advance!

I routinely spay dogs and cats at 6months and haven't had many problems. However, I'm coming under pressure from cat charities to neuter cats from 4 months of age. I feel they're a bit young at this but was wondering what everyone else does?

Should I just move with the times?

[/quote]

I went to Langford recently to a CPD meeting on Rescue Centre Medicine run by the CPL and they were recommending early neutering in cats, with some kittens being done as young as 8 weeks. I'm a little uncomfortable with this for routine neutering for our clients, although I would be happy to undertake this for a charity/rescue centre. Their thinking is that these kittens can then be rehomed and there is absolutely no chance of them then reproducing and thus adding to the massive overpopulation of cats.

I routinely now offer neutering for cats from 4months of age and would definitely recommend it as it is much easier (not that its hard anyway!) and they recover just as quickly. I would probably defer in individual cases eg if very small, but otherwise, 4months is the way forward. There is no evidence as far as I am aware that early neutering has any detrimental effects on the cats later, from the info given at the course. This way as well they can start going outdoors earlier if necessary with no risk of becoming pregnant or impregnating!

As far as I know, 6months of age is just an arbitrary time for neutering. Regarding bitches, unless they are a breed at risk of SMI or have an infantile vulva or still leak a bit of wee when excited, I recommend speying before their first season ie around 6months old- definitely much easier to perfrom and they recover much more quickly.