Using bodies for practice?

Re: Using bodies for practice?

Niall Taylor — Mon, 24 May 2010 17:09:42 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

I saw a vet's euthanasia consent form that had the following options:

I would like to take my animal home to bury
I would like the vet to arrange communal cremation
I would like the vet to arrange individual cremation with the ashes returned to me
I would like to donate my animal's body for the future training of veterinary surgeons

Having a tickbox meant those that were happy could tick this (and I can't remember whether cremation fees were waived), but nothing needed to be pushed. If explanation was requested as to what 'training' meant then it could be given.

[/quote]

Brilliant idea - I'm going to change our consent forms right now!

This is a very important ethical issue and I'm hypersensetive about anything being done to an animal without owners' consent; including disposal of otherwise difficult to get rid of drugs by injecting them into carcasses - just as unethical as doing a PM or practicing procedures on without permission.

You've only got to consider the outcry a few years ago when the bodies of humans, including children, were PM'd and sampled radically without permission from the next of kin to get an idea of what the reaction would be if vets started doing this sort of thing.

Niall

Re: Using bodies for practice?

Alex Gough — Mon, 24 May 2010 10:45:16 GMT

I think it is a really useful training exercise to perform post mortems, and if asked in the right way, I find clients often agree provided they arent being charged. I often post mortem brains that I have MRId and do a FOC histology to see if the histo agrees with the imaging diagnosis. I also like to post mortem abdomens which have had interesting ultrasound findings, but havent gone to xlap. And because I do quite a few post mortems for my own interest, I get the post mortems to do when clients request them, which can be interesting, - last one was a sudden death in a GSD due to intestinal volvulus.

Alex

Re: Using bodies for practice?

Rob Loxley — Sun, 23 May 2010 15:06:11 GMT

I saw a vet's euthanasia consent form that had the following options:

I would like to take my animal home to bury
I would like the vet to arrange communal cremation
I would like the vet to arrange individual cremation with the ashes returned to me
I would like to donate my animal's body for the future training of veterinary surgeons

I've had clients ask (albeit rarely) if they could somehow donate the body to veterinary research, and we've usually passed these on to the local vet school, after discussion with the client, as they were both too large dogs for us to store.

Re: Using bodies for practice?

PATRICK MARSHALL — Wed, 19 May 2010 21:07:31 GMT

last post was reference this

Re: Using bodies for practice?

PATRICK MARSHALL — Wed, 19 May 2010 21:05:27 GMT

Blimey! I have lead a sheltered life. Does your boss charge per ml for the Euthatal when you euthanase animals as well?

Re: Using bodies for practice?

Charlotte Marshall — Wed, 19 May 2010 19:38:19 GMT

I have even had one client in the past who volunteered her dog for the vet student to use - very enlightened!

Re: Using bodies for practice?

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 19 May 2010 15:11:06 GMT

[quote user="macflea"]i asked my boss recently about doing post mortems for my interest only once i got clients consent . she wasnt keen as she said we should chargefor them if a client requests it and if you get their consent to do one for personal interest ie tumors etc , then they might ring a few days later looking for ressults and you are in a diifficult situation as you should charge to give them the results .[/quote]

Hmm. I would happily encourage my assistants to do practicing/PMs on dead bodies - it is likely to improve their skills enough to warrant it. (And mine if I had the time!) It would obviously depend on them being happy to do it in a quiet period - not instead of working! And on permission being granted by the owner obviously. As far as the client is concerned, then allowing them to gain by getting results etc would be an easy way to say thanks - as long as they don't expect to get an answer, or have histo done etc.

Re: Using bodies for practice?

macflea — Wed, 19 May 2010 13:18:18 GMT

i asked my boss recently about doing post mortems for my interest only once i got clients consent . she wasnt keen as she said we should chargefor them if a client requests it and if you get their consent to do one for personal interest ie tumors etc , then they might ring a few days later looking for ressults and you are in a diifficult situation as you should charge to give them the results .

Re: Using bodies for practice?

Clive Ansell — Wed, 19 May 2010 12:18:34 GMT

I have never had to do it, I have always been able to use the bodies of strays. I would of course never do it on an owned animal without the owners consent, but feel it would be appropriate to ask in the right situation with the right client.

The same applies with regard to carrying out post mortem examinations for interest, only with the clients consent.