Crufts and alternative medicine

Re: Crufts and alternative medicine

Bob Russell — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 13:02:45 GMT

We have to remember that these stands are there to make money and feed the misconceptions that many dog owners already have. They are often preaching to the converted.

A BVA stand with ask the vet seems a great idea.

I do not see any anti-vet behaviour from my clients which must either mean I am next to god in my perfection or that they take their gripes home with them and discuss them with fellow dog walkers instead. I wonder which it is.

It always shocks me how negative some peoples perception of vets seem to be whilst large numbers claim they would rather be treated by their vet than their doctor! What a horrible thought having to deal with winging sick people all day!

Re: Crufts and alternative medicine

Richard Allport — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 21:56:40 GMT

Well said, Catherine - and this applies just as much to those of us specialising in complementary medicines - client arrives with list of strange products they have already tried, many of which I've never heard of and have no idea whether they were herbal, homoeopathic or XYZ medicine, recommended by 'my breeder' or 'the dog walker' or 'someone I met in the park who had a dog with exactly the same symptoms'. Dog has now had problem for several years and even magical medicine has a mountain to climb!

Re: Crufts and alternative medicine

Catherine Williams — Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:49:01 GMT

And often several treatments will have been given, with variable efficacy or support from the manufacturer, before the patient gets to you, particularly I find with skin cases. The client may or may not tell you what they've tried, sometimes it will have some impact on how the case presents and sometimes the client has little money to spend on investigations and treatment because they've already spent a bundle on potions and salves.

There are some alternative companies out there that I would trust to produce what they say they produce and to try to back it up with evidence (I like the companies that attempt to engage vets rather than portray their products as a shortcut to avoid us). There are other companies with fascinating mixes with little data behind them (or at least none forthcoming when I asked) and if they are not a regulated medicine do these mixes actually contain what they say they contain and what is the safety data? Owners often don't know how to evaluate these products, take claims at face value and often have no knowledge how to use it properly - the owners who dabble in homeopathy because they read a book, my understanding (regardless of my belief in its efficacy) is that it is not a simple follow this recipe for all itchy dogs - and yet these owners can always find the website that lists the side effects of rimadyl....sigh....!

Re: Crufts and alternative medicine

Richard Allport — Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:13:29 GMT

Alex, it's not so much about the prescribing of XYZ (though, indeed, those of us who subscribe to the alphabet theory of medicine would tell you that you NEVER adminster X at the same time as Y and Z, except at the full moon) it's about the diagnosis and decisions on treatment, which should only be made by vets. If it's an intervention, it should be made by a vet, or at least - say in the case of osteopathy - on referral from a vet.

Richard

Re: Crufts and alternative medicine

Alex Gough — Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:16:17 GMT

Richard, leaving aside whether homeopathy works, which I know we won't agree on, if we took a hypothetical no risk but no benefit intervention, call it XYZ, do you think it is important that only veterinary surgeons administer XYZ, or does it matter if anyone administers it, or should it not be administered at all?

Alex

Re: Crufts and alternative medicine

Richard Allport — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 23:12:04 GMT

[quote user="Adi Nell"]I'd love to see RCVS coming out and giving their informed opinion on a range of issues including alternative medicines - [/quote]

I'd be interested to know your personal view of alternative medicine, Adi, since it will strongly influence my voting decision!

I was at Crufts, and I guess many may expect me to say how pleased I was to see stands advertising weird and wonderful treatments for pets. Well, not really. The danger of letting all and sundry peddle, say, homoeopathy for pets, is that they are not vets. Whatever your views on homoeopathy, ANY advice on treatment should come from a vet. If I see a raging pyo, I will advise surgery, not homoeopathy (or rather surgery with homoeopathic back up to promote rapid post op recovery). But as a vet I know the risks of not operating. I am a vet first, and a homoeopath second. I know the benefits of vaccination, worming, surgery and so on.

Of course, I also know their disadvantages ..... but that's another story.

Richard

Re: Crufts and alternative medicine

Sally Burnell — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:29:55 GMT

Hello,

Yes, the BVA/Kennel Club Canine Health Schemes do go to Crufts. This year the CHS Team reported interest from lots of breeders and some potential new dog owners in the hip, elbow and eye schemes. There was also a lot of interest in the plans for the new syringomyelia test and heart test (currently being developed). The stand is staffed by CHS staff and at least one member of the scrutiny panel who, between them, can explain how the process works from a practical point of view and from the veterinary point of view.

Re: Crufts and alternative medicine

Mark Frost — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 15:23:56 GMT

I have been dragged along too in the past couple of years and have seen stands for BVA discussing hip and elbow dysplasia, don't know whether this still happens?

I enjoyed seeing the discover dogs section and improving my breed knowledge so I am less likely to say 'what a lovely cross'! However I too got frustrated for the same reasons as Alex.

Re: Crufts and alternative medicine

Pete Wedderburn — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 12:02:35 GMT

Alex: I don't think many vets are interested in Crufts, which is a shame. If you're into dogs, you're guaranteed to have an entertaining day out, even if the extremes of dog showing distinctly weird. BSAVA would be the obvious organisation to have a stand at Crufts: perhaps an "ask the vet" stand could be organised, offering a service to visitors which might mean that BSAVA could avoid being charged a whack for renting the stand.

I know that at a "Pet Expo" that was held here in Ireland, this type of stand was immensely popular and it did much to counteract the bias towards non-scientific therapies that you mention.

So any BSAVA members out there: take this idea to your organisation and see if it can be made to happen.

Re: Crufts and alternative medicine

Adi Nell — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 12:13:19 GMT

Hi, Alex,

[quote user="alex gough"] Do you have a policy on this Adi?[/quote]

Not so much a set policy as a desire to see more engagement. As mentioned, this is part of the RCVS remit in terms of acting as a source of informed opinion and needn't interfere with its regulatory arm.

I took a bit of a bashing on the Royal forum (elections bit) for suggesting that RCVS communications might be impoved in general. I'd love to see RCVS coming out and giving their informed opinion on a range of issues including alternative medicines - I believe there's a debate to be had and the RCVS Council should be protecting the public against what it feels is misleading information.

Best,

Adi

Re: Crufts and alternative medicine

Alex Gough — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:10:58 GMT

I get the impression that the RCVS are more interested in defending than promoting the profession, and certainly haven't seen it take any lead on pseudoscience and animal health misinformation. Do you have a policy on this Adi?

alex

Re: Crufts and alternative medicine

Adi Nell — Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:50:09 GMT

[quote user="alex gough"]Who should we lobby to promote the profession, and good practice, at these sort of events?[/quote]

I'd go for RCVS and BVA. BVA can do out and out marketing and promotion of what vets do, and the RCVS can act as an informed source of opinion as per its strapline: "To act as an impartial source of informed opinion on animal health and welfare issues and their interaction with human health."

Both organisations could do a lot to promote the, well, more scientific side of caring for dogs...

All best,

Adi

Re: Crufts and alternative medicine

Richard Carter — Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:38:46 GMT

Also interesting and somewhat dismaying to see docked, dwarf and fighting dogs in the final ring. These people must be related to bankers