Who has legal responsibility for uncontrolled dogs?

Re: Who has legal responsibility for uncontrolled dogs?

salome2001 — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:23:36 GMT

[quote user="Laurence Webb"]

, the policeman did say to the nurse that they may be able to get the family to supply a replacement cat as compensation. She wasn't impressed.

[/quote]

... which I think brings us to the crux of the problem....

Re: Who has legal responsibility for uncontrolled dogs?

Sabine Rutili — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:01:20 GMT

Hi Laurence,

Glad the situation has evolved in a way that is not too bad finally and many thanks for your explanations concerning the laws about dangerous dogs.It's always useful to be aware of it, so many thanks again.

This story is not fun at all I know but the fact they are thinking about a "replacement cat " makes me smile a tiny bit (sorry), ...I am wondering if they would ever offer a replacement kid (or husband, or wife...)as a compensation, in the case someone would be seriously injuried!

Re: Who has legal responsibility for uncontrolled dogs?

Laurence Webb — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:43:19 GMT

Thanks for the replies. I think that insisting that the police log the complaint made a difference as they've visited the nurse. The poiceman who visited has some experience of this sort of problem but has had variable results. They are probably going to persue under the dangerous dog's act.

From my reading of the law destruction of the dog would not happen as it hasn't injured a person (attacking a cat is not covered by the law, although the 1906 Dogs Act talks about injury of livestock) but they hope to enforce that the dog is muzzled when outside the home. If the dog were picked up not wearing a muzzle then it could then be destroyed.

One of the witnesses, a passing taxi driver, is champing at the bit to supply a witness statement to the attack but unfortunately the other witness, a neighbor, is now unwilling as she is afraid of reprisals from the family.

As an aside, and somewhat missing the point, the policeman did say to the nurse that they may be able to get the family to supply a replacement cat as compensation. She wasn't impressed.

Re: Who has legal responsibility for uncontrolled dogs?

Sabine Rutili — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 11:31:15 GMT

"there is definitely something to do to neutralize the dangerous dog before it's too late"....I meant according to the rules. I was absolutely not promoting a physical and radical "do it yourself" solution.

Hope I was not misunderstood

Re: Who has legal responsibility for uncontrolled dogs?

Sabine Rutili — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 00:44:16 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

As this is an owned animal, the owners are fully responsible for having their dog under control, regardless of whether or not it is illegal under the dangerous dogs act. Failure to keep proper control is a criminal offence and therefore it is a police matter. If it is roaming the streets uncontrolled it should be rounded up and destroyed.

[/quote]

I was about two fingers to say the same thing Clive already told plus the fact that I was wondering if in the UK an animal is also considered as a "good" according to the law ( no legal rights but no duties) and since something happened to the nurse's cat therefore it would be also the police job to investigate and deal with the dog owners.

I mean if this dog owner would have destroyed her car, burnt up her house.... the police would pay attention so if cats are similar to goods in the law something could also be done against them , but I am not a lawyer and I have not an accurate idea yet about the cat status in the UK, so I am just wondering.

This story remind me a similar one that happened in New York, they brought us a puppy miniature Pinscher called "Poppy" we have seen few days ago for vaccines, but unfortunately he had been killed by a Whippet who was being walked by a dog walker around Manhattan and who couldn't control the animal as he had other dogs in hands ( other problem too).We thought the Whippet took the little Pinscher for a rat and then started to hunt him to death.The owner didn't want to report the dog walker as she was completely traumatized and we were all !!

I asked the vets the same question: who's responsible for the puppy's death? the Whippet's owner, the dog walker? Nobody?......Well what I understood is that nobody is really responsible for this in NY.Whippet are not responsible for killing another dog,but if the puppy's owner had intented something against the Whippet she would have been in big troubles because you're not allowed to "touch" an animal there, but maybe I don't have all the tricks too (if someone knows exactly just correct me, I would be interested), they told me it's similar with kids.

So hopefully we may not have reached this level of animal's protection yet in Europe but I would say there is definitely something to do to neutralize the dangerous dog before it's too late,like everybody has already told.

Then I feel sorry for your nurse's loss and I hope she's gonna be fine.Good luck.

Re: Who has legal responsibility for uncontrolled dogs?

Clive Ansell — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:49:52 GMT

A farmer in my village has recently been prosecuted because his dog bit a walker on a public footpath. He has been allowed to keep the dog, but has been warned if it happens again it will be destroyed.

I contacted the police in the Birmingham area about 2 years ago, as I was concerned about the number (8-10 every day) of aggressive pit bull type dogs coming through the door of a low cost clinic. Almost none of these dogs are microchipped, muzzled, or neutered as the law requires under the dangerous dogs act. The police were not in the least bit interested, advising me to contact them should there be a specific incident. I did request a log number and pointed out that I would bring the subject up again should there be another toddler ripped to pieces by one of the things.

Re: Who has legal responsibility for uncontrolled dogs?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:33:06 GMT

[quote user="Laurence Webb"] has growled and bared its teeth at our nurse plus other people before.[/quote]

Dangerous Dogs Act. If it's not too late she should lay a complaint and state that she was "terrified".

Alternatively, she might get swift action if she testifies that the owner called her a (insert vaguely race-related word) or a (insert vaguely homosexuality-related word).

Re: Who has legal responsibility for uncontrolled dogs?

Vikki Moran — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:44:36 GMT

I've been involved in a few cases like this.

The police as a rule are not interested. despite the dangerous dogs act, firstly because they don't generally have a good understanding of the act, and secondly as they don't consider injuries to other dogs or cats as being an issue.

sadly it is only when a child has been involved that they take notice.

The first time I ever dealt with a case it was a young puppy (who had been killed whilst being walked by children) I suggested to the owners they may wish to pursue the DDA angle, and they were in turn told by the police that if I knew so much about it, I should find the relevant legislation so they knew where to go with it. Apparently they didn't know if it was a case or not and were't prepared to investigate for themselves.

Re: Who has legal responsibility for uncontrolled dogs?

Mike Martin — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:23:09 GMT

But is this not typical of the way society has gone. No one stands up and takes action. Then if (or when) this dog kills a child, everyone will refute this could have been forseen. Not unlike other horrendous stories that have occurred recently. What is the world coming too! Or is it just the UK? Sorry, ranting now, best stop!

Re: Who has legal responsibility for uncontrolled dogs?

Mark Frost — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:15:36 GMT

There was a similar situation recently with a pair of known dogs that had attacked and killed cats and also another dog (under control and owned) where the police had stated they only had powers once it attacked a person, which maybe incorrect second hand hearsay but sounded ridiculous to me, particularly as there are offences as stated above.

Re: Who has legal responsibility for uncontrolled dogs?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:03:03 GMT

I would say this is the responsibility of the police-ownership of an out of control dog is a criminal offence-end of story. It sounds as though they are ducking their responsibilities-a crime not logged has not occurred, so won't affect their national rankings. The only time I have known the police to be helpful on any animal related crime, was when I worked in Llandrindod-Dyfed-Powys Police Authority-at a time when they had the lowest crime rate, and the highest clear-up rate of recorded crime in England and Wales. They were so desperate to prove that they actually had some crime and therefore could justify their continued existence, that EVERY complaint was logged and investigated. The Sergeant lived next door to me-he once said that he wanted to show Carmarthen (headqurters ) that his boys actually did something, otherwise he might lose one of them.

My advice is to get a solicitor to write to them demanding action-with a threat of a report to the Police Ombudsman-he's there to investigate complaints of failure to perform statutory duties-not only complaints of excessive zeal

Wynne

Re: Who has legal responsibility for uncontrolled dogs?

Robert Whiteford — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:58:44 GMT

I would phone the police and quote the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 - it is an offense to have a dog out of control in a public place (was it a public place?) There are witnesses. I would express concern that the dog poses a risk to the public and that you would not want to be in the local, or national, press expressing your sorrow that, despite having notified the police and the local authority, this dog went on to injure, or worse, an innocent child. I would hope that emphasizing the risk to the public the police would realize they are in the frame if there was another incident and they hadn't acted on information received.. . .