Have you had enough yet?

Re: Have you had enough yet?

Ian Mostyn — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:00:57 GMT

Having re-read the other thread and your comments along with the original article, I now realise I was wrong and it was entirely appropriate of MW to bring this matter to the attention of the public in the manner that he did. I apologise for any inappropriate comments of mine and wish MW all the best for his future writing career.

Ian

Re: Have you had enough yet?

J G Wray — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:04:58 GMT

Dear Ms Mostyn,

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Shall we leave him alone now and debate the subject rather than the man, which is what the rest of us have been doing all along?[/quote]

You fooled me again. I thought the constant references to Mr W meant he was the subject of your ire, with his self-serving publicity 'n all.

Your brother also wrote:

"..It is a one-sided argument when one side uses a mass published newspaper (readership of 4.8 million) and the other gets (no offence Arlo) a relatively small website to reply. If you can arrange a full page spread in the Daily Mail for me then I shall arrange a suitable reply..."

Which translates to "S'not fair" [stamping of feet, bunched fists, screwed up face, throwing onto floor]- that he should so blatantly self-promote. I don't really think you're separating the man from his premise.

On the subject of unfairness, just wait until Panorama goes on TV. Then there'll be unhappiness, but hopefully less of the Self-Righteous moralising stuff in response.

This sort of attack on the profession needs methodical response, not personalisation and definitely not one generated by umbrage.

Leave Mr W and his book and its content alone and start thinking how to cool and calmly deal with the Panorama stuff to come. Then we'll have something useful for the next time and the time after that etc.

JGW

Re: Have you had enough yet?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:32:28 GMT

[quote user="Jonathan Wray"] Mr Mostyn is "bitter"[/quote]

He isn't. He's actually quite sweet!

Seriously, neither Ian or I care one way or the other about Mr W - he is a complete stranger to us. I am sorry for him that he had such a hard time in our chosen profession - because there is so much about it to love. It is simply his views that are hateful. Shall we leave him alone now and debate the subject rather than the man, which is what the rest of us have been doing all along?

Re: Have you had enough yet?

Ian Mostyn — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 12:53:56 GMT

JGW,

It is a one-sided argument when one side uses a mass published newspaper (readership of 4.8 million) and the other gets (no offence Arlo) a relatively small website to reply. If you can arrange a full page spread in the Daily Mail for me then I shall arrange a suitable reply. He certainly has the right to freedom of speech but he doesn't have the right to not be challenged over his views. The rest of the vets in the country have as much right to defend themselves over the article. I do seem to remember the article say that all vets were up to this so yes, by implication that includes me and you. If he had said that a few vets were doing it, fair enough, but he attacked the whole profession basing his arguments on just a few vets and practices.

I didn't know we still used the stocks anymore but I do feel he should be questioned over his article and given the chance to reply - which he was given!

Have I had enough - yes - of crass journalism and of your petty arguments. I didn't actually post in the main thread, I kept quiet, I will keep quiet again as I have no inclination to argue with you. MW has left the profession he felt so bad in. I hope he has managed to sell a few books on the back of this article and wish him luck in his new career. I just hope he leaves alone those of us who are trying to do a good job for our patients and clients.

Ian

PS I thought I worked far longer than 1 week to pay the government. Isn't it some point in June when we start working for ourselves and not Mr Darling & Mr Brown?

Re: Have you had enough yet?

Richard Carter — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:43:41 GMT

re my drug problem - the first 7 days I work for my drug wholesaler, the next 7 days for my staff, the following 7 or so days the bank, the electricity, gas, telephones etc and the last few days for the VAT, HMRC and hopefully something for myself. Any suggestions on something to take away the pain??

Re: Have you had enough yet?

J G Wray — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:29:48 GMT

Dear Mr Guthrie,

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Jonathan, that surely must take the award for 'most disingenuous post of 2009'[/quote]

Blimey.

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Starting a new thread that it calculated to elicit a response from the 'hyenas' is not supportive. Quite the opposite[/quote]

I have a different view. Mr Mostyn is "bitter". Letting this thread about Mr W go, drawing a line under this and chilling will really help the embittered, the polarised. Hence the title of the thread. Something passive like letting sleeping dogs lie when you haven't had the full catharsis, well, doesn't really cut it.

The Degree of Self-Righteousness which has been expressed over this small matter is what should get any "disingenuity" award this year. We should all be really proud.

Regs

JGW

Re: Have you had enough yet?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:48:48 GMT

Malcolm made a very valid and serious point. Until 15 months ago, I did not know any veterinary surgeons who had committed suicide. I now know 2. The problems leading to veterinary suicides are undoubtedly complex and multifactorial, but a lack of appreciation from owners who often seem to be hindering rather than helping us to cure their animals must be one. It is exceedingly frustrating to be expected to try to cure an animal with one hand tied behind our backs, because owners expect the impossible-quality treatment for a ludicrously unrealistic low fee This book can only make the problem worse

Wynne

Re: Have you had enough yet?

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:52:09 GMT

[quote user="Jonathan Wray"] [quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Just curious though - how have you been supportive to him then?[/quote]

By asking the hyenas if they've had enough. It's not hugging him.[/quote]

Jonathan, that surely must take the award for 'most disingenuous post of 2009'.

Starting a new thread that is calculated to elicit a response from the 'hyenas' is not supportive. Quite the opposite. Supportive would have been to let sleeping dogs lie.

Re: Have you had enough yet?

J G Wray — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:25:48 GMT

Dear Ms Mostyn,

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]I don't generally hug someone who voluntarily makes me their enemy.[/quote]

Not even metaphorically? Cor, you're tough.

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Just curious though - how have you been supportive to him then?[/quote]

By asking the hyenas if they've had enough. It's not hugging him.

Have you done as you were instructed and admitted your drug problem yet? This instruction came from the most important person and a mature woman to boot. Have you done it?

[quote user="Ian Mostyn"]

It has been a very one sided argument in favour of MW.[/quote]

Really?!?!?! You fooled me.

[quote user="Ian Mostyn"]

He attacked the profession in a very open and public medium - the Daily Mail. Those he attacked have no right to reply - the Mail isn't going to publish a balanced argument in a month of tuesday's.[/quote]

Oh I see what you mean. He published in the Daily Mail and that's "Just so unfair" as my teenagers would say.

[quote user="Ian Mostyn"] He attacked me, calling me barbaric, cruel, money-grabbing, a liar making up problems that don't exist and I am personally responsible for all genetic breeding problems in dogs and cats. [/quote]

Did he? Is there something special about you which makes you feel this way?

[quote user="Ian Mostyn"]His generalist article attacked all vets indiscriminately.[/quote]

Ah, the price of free speech which all of us enjoy. This small, loose association of people with a niche expertise which preens itself and call itself a profession will go on nevertheless.

[quote user="Ian Mostyn"]What has happened on this side is that a few people have been able to put their point across in a relatively private forum and hold a discussion with MW. If we had attacked him in public you would have made a fair point but he publically attacked us and we defended ourselves in (almost) private. [/quote]

Have you had enough yet, or would you like Mr W in the stocks?

[quote user="Ian Mostyn"]Personally I feel he is a very bitter and twisted man, so delusioned with his life I would be changing profession. I would feel guilty if I was his boss to see what I had help create but he did start it!! If you raise your head above the parapet to sling mud, expect some back. Saying that, however, I do feel sorry for him and he needs help to start a new career but not one achieved by attacking me, my wife and the profession I (still) love.

[/quote]

Ah, I thought the Mostyns were brother and sister. I don't think Mr W has made it a secret he's disillusioned and if there exists one example of his concerns in practice then he ain't delusional, his point of view is merely unbalanced.