Another veterinary author making his name

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Martin Jones — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:16:46 GMT

[quote user="Martin Jones"]

I realise that I have called Matthew a clown, and taken the mickey to the point where he withdrew from the debate. I have discussed this with him privately. By all means let's rip his arguments apart, but not the man himself.

[/quote]

I think you must have accidentally misrepresented my post by chopping some bits out. Easily done and I'll let you off with a pat on the head. After all, as I said earlier in the thread, 'to err is human; to forgive is divine'.

You cheeky little chappy, you.

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

J G Wray — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 19:21:05 GMT

Ah weel as a post script here are some of the best:

I realise that I have called Matthew a clown, and taken the mickey to the point where he withdrew from the debate.

Let's stay on topic - we're not talking about prices but rather discussing Mr 'Wilkinson'

The clown is currently in about 3,000th position on Amazon, and judging by his writing style in the Mail, is unlikely to go much higher.

The problem is that to engage with Michael is automatically to give his views the oxygen of publicity, and in so doing, give them credence.

...this is not a worthy argument from you, particularly given the quality of your previous posts.

I had a colleague once who would tell owners it was their fault, but that person just had a personality disorder

[quote user="Martin Jones"]Very few ever enquire as to their effect on others.[/quote]

Night all

JGW

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Martin Jones — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:46:02 GMT

[quote user="Jonathan Wray"]

Have you really not had enough yet?

[/quote]

Plenty, thanks - how thoughtful of you to ask. Most people just pester and pester, not realising that their whiny, sanctimonious preaching is getting tiresome. Very few ever enquire as to their effect on others.

Bless you

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

J G Wray — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:40:32 GMT

Dear Mr Jones,

Mr Wray will do, after all I've never slept with a Welsh person (sic). There is another Jonathan Wray in the Register who is much nicer by all accounts and he might be prepared to know you more intimately.

[quote user="Martin Jones"]Truly, I bask in the warm, nurturing light of your wisdom. We are fortunate, but not worthy[/quote]

Hang on, where's my rib gone?

[quote user="Martin Jones"](ps if you wish to let the man go, I'd suggest not starting any more threads about him.)[/quote]

Why are you so vindictive? It's Xmas. Be charitable. The sum total of Mr W's influence is an already forgotten Daily Mail article.

Have you really not had enough yet?

Regs

JGW

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:32:11 GMT

"Critics do not create, only destroy " Martin has said it all

MW has done his utmost to destroy our profession. The vast majority of us are hard working and dedicated, and we have had to endure his unfair criticism I can only speak for myself, but I can usually take, constructive , informed, and deserved criticism. It is when I feel that I am UNFAIRLY criticised that I feel injured, especially if I feel I am helpless to fight back This is how I feel at the moment

Wynne

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Hanna Bennett — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:33:38 GMT

[quote user="Martin Jones"]

Dear Mr Wray

Jonathon. Jonny. Jon. J.

Truly, I bask in the warm, nurturing light of your wisdom. We are fortunate, but not worthy

Mr Jones

(ps if you wish to let the man go, I'd suggest not starting any more threads about him.)

[/quote]

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Martin Jones — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:00:07 GMT

Dear Mr Wray

Jonathon. Jonny. Jon. J.

Truly, I bask in the warm, nurturing light of your wisdom. We are fortunate, but not worthy

Mr Jones

(ps if you wish to let the man go, I'd suggest not starting any more threads about him.)

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

J G Wray — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:33:26 GMT

Dear Mr Jones,

[quote user="Martin Jones"]Critics do not create, but only destroy - and what do I know, eh? He'll probably win awards for it,[/quote]

Blimey someone wrote this as far back as the 3rd December:

" Since we're not going to put anyone else in the stocks isn't it time to let Mr W go? After all, it's Xmas and we're all going to look damned fools if his book sells."

It seems it takes a fortnight for some to reach similar conclusions.

Regs

JGW

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:07:56 GMT

His story is yesterday's news and is likely to have had little impact - we hope. Certainly, what he wrote in his book is his opinion and he's entitled to it. To write about what he has personally witnessed in his career is also his right. (If I remember correctly, certain vets didn't like what James Herriot wrote about them!) To go to a national newspaper with a sensationalist story, condemning the whole profession for its actions and insinuating the profession is rotten to the core, just to increase sales of his book, was low. IMHO you can't expect support from that self-same profession.

As far as the book is concerned - I have only read a few chapters before I got bored but the writing is juvenile and certainly not objective. I'll repeat that for added effect. It isn't objective.

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Martin Jones — Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:42:53 GMT

I'm a little ambivalent: I'm certainly not sitting here in a rosy glow of smugness. I did actually want to enjoy the book, regardless of whether I agreed with it or not - otherwise Matthew has done this thing without any real hope of substantiating his claims - but I just couldn't.

For the record, as yet another Matthew-bashing thread fires up, I do think we should be offering the guy support rather than condemnation. I realise that this sounds hypocritical in view of the review I wrote, but I would not have been quite so honest had Matthew not chosen to give the book away for free. I think I would otherwise have followed the 'be nice, or silent' route.

Critics do not create, but only destroy - and what do I know, eh? He'll probably win awards for it, in which case I'll get someone clever to explain it to me.

Matthew

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Alex Gough — Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:58:28 GMT

Nice review Martin, and well done for ploughing through it.

alex

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:37:12 GMT

Alternatively, you can now read Martin Jones' review of the book, here.

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Laurence Webb — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 11:48:36 GMT

You can now download the whole thing for free

http://drop.io/fishsnorkel/asset/the-destiny-of-species-ebook-pdf

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Alex Gough — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:48:41 GMT

And he thought we were rude to him here!

Alex

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Mike Martin — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:07:25 GMT

For anyone who is also a member of VIN, there is amazing uproar about this Daily Mail article in the USA too....... click long link

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Lucie Allcutt — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 23:52:56 GMT

Two of the chapters of his book are available online at his blog. I personally found them quite ranty.

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Richard Stephenson — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 19:00:52 GMT

Bob,

Do I take that you have a copy of this book?

If you do could I take a look at it when you have finnished with it (assuming you haven't used it to wipe unmentionable parts of your anatomy).

I will not put one penny of my hard earned money into Mr W's pocket by buying a copy - but I hate to condemn something I haven't seen.

Yours,

Richard S.

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Bob Partridge — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 01:22:53 GMT

The RCVS web site & staff have often been complained about for "encouraging" clients to make complaints about their vets.

Certainly they make an effort to make it as easy as possible. Mr W seems to have failed to have looked at the site recently.

It is depressing to have a man with (as I understand it) no experieince of SA practice pontificate about having animals on drips for months on end after an RTA.

It is even more depressing when you look at the quality of the writing. I have had the misfortune to try & read some of the guff. Whatever you think of the ideas the literary style is condescending & immature.

Perhaps I should repeat that... the literary style is is condescending & immature. Perhaps repeating it again might make it sound more believable. the literary style is condescending & immature.

.... (if you read the book you will see that I am slipping into MrW's mode. Indeed it is written more as if it was a blog, - And don't you think that is a good idea then Caroline? (ooops sorry switching into mode again)

The book is described as being based on mathematical logic. As far as I can see the only maths involved appear to be (Sensationalist story) - (true representation of fact) = (desperate hope for sales)

Yours (unlike some with no aspirations to being Darwin on my one A level in Biology, or of being Dickens from my O level)

Bob

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Laurence Webb — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 22:56:13 GMT

[quote user="Judith Joyce"]

Twice in the last month I have had calls from vets wanting a "price" - the first for a fracture, the second for a hip replacement. Each time I gave an estimate of cost and was dismayed to discover that that was all they were after, a stand alone price comparison before choosing where to refer. [/quote]

I was forced to do this once on a client's instruction. The animal needed an orthopaedic operation and I spoke to the referrral centre that I wanted to send the animal to to get an idea of price. On telling the client the expected cost they refused to be referred until I'd phoned around to get estimates from other people and even told me which referral surgeons they wanted prices after speaking to peole who'd been referred to other places.

I certainly didn't enjoy doing it. For one thing I tied up the time of 3 different surgeons who probably had better things to do with their time (had they known that they only had a 1 in 3 chance of 'winning the contract'). Additionally it took me a long time to phone different places, arrange a time to speak to each surgeon, give them the history then get an estimate. It took multiple phone calls over the course of a day and at no extra cost to the client.

I suppose the correct thing to do business wise would be to have charged them for each phone call I made, but I'm one of those 'soft' vets who wanted the animal to have the surgery.

[quote user="Judith Joyce"] If vets are doing it, we can hardly be surprised if clients do the same!! [/quote]If clients are doing it for other services we can hardly be surprised if they expect us to do the same for them.

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 09:23:45 GMT

[quote user="Richard Stephenson"] ARLO,

Sorry for going off topic a bit - but I thought Jacquin has raised an important and worrying issue which needed answering.[/quote]

Don't worry. But this was what I meant when I said ealier that it would be worth starting new threads for some of the issues raised by Matthew's article. The question of how the profession is policed (and the problems members have with the current system, which is based on the RCVS reacting to complaints from within or outside the profession) is perhaps worth debating further. If you think it is, start a new thread

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Judith Joyce — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 22:18:31 GMT

If vets are doing it, we can hardly be surprised if clients do the same!!

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 19:33:38 GMT

Evelyn One of my pet hates is people (non-bonded clients ) phoning up and asking the price of a cat dental What do they mean ?-simple S and P in a youngish healthy cat, or elderly cat with possibly iffy kidneys needing multiple extractions, possibly osteomyelitis of jaw -bone or anything inbetween?

Wynne

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 19:24:50 GMT

[quote user="Matthew Watkinson"]David Coffey has been raising this issue for 40 years and has been almost completely ignored.[/quote]

Oh, not ignored.

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 19:22:42 GMT

[quote user="Laurence Webb"]Remember that today's newspaper is tomorrow's chip paper (or would be if our Health and Safety concious society would allow such a dangerous thing as wrapping chips in newspaper). [/quote]

Not tomorrow's chip paper but next week's kennel lining. Or is that illegal yet?

Re: Another veterinary author making his name

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 19:09:00 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

I was going to say; £100 is very cheap for a general anaesthetic, dental work and all medications in a cat if doing a full and thorough job to a high standard. Most of my practices would charge in the region of £150 - £200 if uncomplicated and just 1 or 2 simple extractions, which is perfectly reasonably. Of course if blood tests, iv fluids, long and complicated extractions, or ongoing hospitalisation are needed it could well be more, even double.

That said, follow this link and see what you think.

www.petvaccinationclinic.co.uk

[/quote]

The very fact they are quoting exact prices in this way suggests they are doing "dentals" (whatever that means) as a money-spinner, possibly unnecessarily, possibly with very little clear idea of what they are about.