Vet student and young graduate interest in vet business

Re: Vet student and young graduate interest in vet business

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 09:47:04 GMT

When it comes to teaching surgery, I think the problem is that the schools have expanded until they can't give the students the "hands-on " experience we took for granted. I did my 1st bitch spay at Langford with Dr (later Prof ) Harold Pearson supervising. I was then allowed to do a couple whilst seeing practice, but only after being signed as capable by HP

Now, we experienced practitioners are expected to do all the practical teaching, either during EMS, or the PDP. Naturally, this is resented, as our primary responsibility is to our patients and their owners. Add on the fact that if we refer to veterinary schools, we are likely to be fobbed off with recent graduates only a few years qualified , who are doing residencies, rather than the experienced, highly regarded senior members of the profession who actually used to be hands-on clinicians , and it's no wonder the symbiotic relationship between practitioners and their local veterinary school has broken down. We then refer to private referral centres , because they give a much better service, and the schools complain we're not sending them enough referrals!!!!

Sorry for going off topic

Wynne

Re: Vet student and young graduate interest in vet business

Stephen Ashman — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 19:24:11 GMT

[quote user="Toby Birch"]The vet schools need to remember that they are training students to be vets not just to be able to perform veterinary clinical examinations/diagnostics/sx etc.[/quote]

It would have been nice if we were taught to perform surgery! Instead it was a case of read a book and hope where you saw practice did you proud.

So essentially I agree, if there is no time to teach surgery (or dentistry) (or ophthalmology) (or oncology), when do they teach business?

Re: Vet student and young graduate interest in vet business

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:31:39 GMT

Nottingham has lots of new ideas that I think rather good. Only time will tell, but I won't be surprised if Nottingham graduates will become much sought-after assistants, not least because they will have been exposed to real-life practices (including business aspects ) from the word go

Wynne

Re: Vet student and young graduate interest in vet business

John Sheridan — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:17:20 GMT

I think things are moving slowly in the right direction. I aam aware that the RVC has established a chapter of the VBMA with the support of Jim Gazzard and the Nottingham Vet School is running a series of presentations and workshops for the 4th year and which has just started. The programme has lots of outside speakers and I hope will become a regular feature.

John

Re: Vet student and young graduate interest in vet business

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:15:10 GMT

The trouble is, the veterinary schools lack the time/ expertise/ enthusiasm etc amongst their present staff, and no funds to hire extra staff. If only they acknowledged their ignorance, and had the honesty to say to students- "Ihaven't got a clue, as I've never been in practice/onlyhad a couple of years as a junior assistant, but you really must know, so try to learn as much as possible when seeing practice "Instead they just ignore the subject-and the ignorance amongst some of them is astounding

My prime example was an academic (nameless ) who qualified from Cambridge during the Steele-Bodger era, and still thought it acceptable to do tests and not charge for time !!!!! No excuses accepted, because he could not possibly have escaped being told about practice economics-unless he never attended cattle medicine lectures !!!!!

Wynne

Re: Vet student and young graduate interest in vet business

Toby Birch — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 15:06:29 GMT

Hi John,

When I was a student (I graduated in 2005) I was involved in a fantasy curriculum committee. I was pushing the inclusion of a business section but it was not easy. The vet schools need to remember that they are training students to be vets not just to be able to perform veterinary clinical examinations/diagnostics/sx etc. As many vets become business owners this must also be included. I believe things may have moved a little but I'm not really sure.

Toby

Re: Vet student and young graduate interest in vet business

John Sheridan — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:26:29 GMT

Dr Jim Wilson is a vet and lawyer in the US and has been actively involved in supporting the Veterinary Business Management Association set up and run by vet students in most US vet schools. See what Jim has to say in the latest episode of the Veterinary Business Video Show

John

Re: Vet student and young graduate interest in vet business

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 13:54:21 GMT

I hope you are right John, because my experience is that it is frightening how little knowledge/interest the average student, or assistant has in practice economics. I think that part of the problem is so few (if any ) senior academics have business management experience

Wynne

Re: Vet student and young graduate interest in vet business

Jill Macdonald — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 13:31:30 GMT

Hi John,

I agree that there is certainly more interest and involvement in veterinary business, personnel management and client service issues from new-'ish' vets in practice. I think they realise there has to be, as veterinary business may survive (just) but will certainly not thrive without atttention to such details. Clients expect more, and to achieve high standards of service, you have to have high quality, trained, and MOTIVATED staff to back it up.

However, i still feel that vet students are quite naive to such issues, and go into practice for the first time so woried about the first GDV (or similar!) that they don't think about the business side of things. I imagine that they mistakenly think this is not their concern until they become partners. I help teach communication skills, and as part of this we try to incorporate discussion about financial issues and obviously care of the client, but I think there is a long, long way to go in preparing undergrads for this side of being a vet..

Jill