Changes to VN nursing scheme

Re: Changes to VN nursing scheme

Martin Jones — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 13:11:07 GMT

Wynne

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Martin, it will still be possible for employees in practice to take 2 years day release to complete the 1st year

Wynne

[/quote]

Yes, I understand this - as I say I actually ran a vet nursing course, so have a better-than-average grasp about how these things work. However, we're going to find that as entry to the course won't require the tedium and hard work of actually getting a job in practice first, the vast majority of students are not going to have gone down the kennel maid approach. Our ability to send our own employees onto the course may become a moot point as we find it harder and harder to actually get hold of them.

The powers that be seem to be selling this new set-up on the basis that it reduces paperwork: they know their market, as we'll swallow anything in return for less form filling. But we might just sleepwalk into a situation where the selection and training of vet nurses becomes ever more dissociated from practice. That's not necessarily a good thing.

Martin

Re: Changes to VN nursing scheme

Cat Henstridge — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 11:00:00 GMT

Firstly, I am very pleased we are going to see the back of the portfolios, I have never known such a onerous and patronising document. The training nurses are not stupid, so having to actually ensure they have written down 'I turned the light on so I could see the animal before examining it' ( amongst other, similar, moronic statements) was borderline insulting to most. As the requirements for it became ever more convoluted I began to believe someone in charge of the nursing training really didn't like them at all. Also, the levels of bureaucracy surrounding it were astonishing, at one point in our practice we a poor nurse who three assessors watching, as we had an assessor assessing our assessor who herself was being assessed!

However, I am concerned that students will be allowed to enter the course without a practice already, what will happen to those who don't get one by the second year? Also, the requirement to see farm animals is of questional benefit.

Both veterinary and veterinary nursing are very popular careers with far more students wanting to do them than courses have the space for. It is easy for colleages and universities to exploit this for their own gain by creating courses there will be a demand for but where they may not be enough jobs available at the other end. The RCVS should be very careful that this isn't what happens with the new VN course.

Cat

Re: Changes to VN nursing scheme

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 09:07:29 GMT

Martin, it will still be possible for employees in practice to take 2 years day release to complete the 1st year

Wynne

Re: Changes to VN nursing scheme

Martin Jones — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 22:28:03 GMT

Fairly recently, I ran a Vet Nursing Foundation Degree course at our local VNTC. At the time, it was obvious that the rest of vet nurse training was one day going to head this way, for a number of reasons: it was less exclusive for entry (which is HUGE in FE/HE these days), garnered far higher fees for the college than traditional work based learning courses, opened a route towards degree level training for vet nurses (which is essential if the step towards true professional status is to be made), removed the cap on numbers and allowed a large amount of theory to be instilled before starting in practice.

The problem is that these new proposals won't quite bridge the gap, meaning that it WILL all change again within a few years. Placements are going to be harder to find, especially as the local course provider will be taking on far more students than it knows it can realistically place in the local veterinary environment. More students means more income for the college, and as a result the second, clinical year is going to cause a lot of casualties. What are those students who can't get placement going to do? It also tends to distance the practice from potential employees: we, like most practices, aim to take on trainees, get them used to us and vice versa, and then send them to college when they're ready. Taking on part-trained students of whom we have no real knowledge is going to be a risk.

Our current system has an inherent quality control system, in that only those students who can make their way into employment at a veterinary practice can make it onto the NVQ training strand. When you've worked in FE colleges and seen the type of student that gets taken on because funding is more important than learning experience or callibre of graduate, it makes the loss of control that we're going to face pretty terrifying.

Vet nurses train to a far higher standard than the current NVQ3 award suggests, but promotion of their qualifications has been held back by the need for work based learning. Foundation degree does at least recognise the level of their professionalism, but there's still going to have to be some kind of quota system, both to maintain quality and to protect trainees and new graduates from (even more) exploitation in the workplace. This new system may not actually do either.

Martin

Re: Changes to VN nursing scheme

Alan Tevendale — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 15:02:18 GMT

I would welcome these 5 days if I actually thought they might mean a nurse spending 5 days on a farm. I can't see it happening though. I honestly think that the average nurse at my 50:50 SA/LA practice with 9 vets spends maybe 5 hours every year on farm. I'm just not sure that it will mean nurses setting foot on farm.

Re: Changes to VN nursing scheme

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 14:56:20 GMT

Though it would extend the course to 3 years, an older emplyee could qualify via day-release. I have long deplored the increasing divisions in our profession, so welcome the fact that in future RVNs will need to at least have some exposure to both horses and farm animals. I agree 5 days will not give much experience, but at least they will have set foot on farms

Wynne

Re: Changes to VN nursing scheme

Alan Tevendale — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 14:32:41 GMT

I was at one of the RCVS meetings last night and one of the topics discussed was the development and implementation of these new VN training proposals. On the whole I cannot see many problems and I think that generally they are a step in the right direction. On slightly worrying point however was the area of having to gain farm animal experience. Exactly what use would this be to the vast majority of VNs who spend their entire veterinary working life in small animal work? When I ask a nurse to assist on the farm side of my practice it's usually on a surgical procedure - the skills needed? The skills the nurse has already developed working in small animal theatre. Also do the college think that the 5 days that were suggested are sufficient to give anyone time to get experience in farm animal practice? It surely takes years to gain the experience that is often needed when working with such large and potentially dangerous animals.

I would love to hear anyone elses thoughts on this proposal. Maybe I've got things all wrong.

Re: Changes to VN nursing scheme

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 14:31:05 GMT

I have a few reservations - mainly that anyone older than school-leavers may find a full-time course impossible to finance and manage. But if there will be some financial support then it may work.

I do, however, think that the majority of the changes are beneficial. Nurses will have a baseline knowledge before they start work - which is great. They will have a full year to concentrate on studying - rather than fitting it around a full-time job. And the same goes for the practical aspects. And reducing the pressure on the TP is long overdue!

Hopefully these changes will make it easier for school leavers to choose VN training as a profession and therefore increase the number of QVNs.

Re: Changes to VN nursing scheme

Mialee Blair — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 11:45:37 GMT

Cant see much not to like really!

We have been a training provider for about 12yrs and it has gradually become more and more onerous, to the point that several times in the last few years we have seriously considered giving it up altogether. We currently have a prevet/1st and 2nd yr trainee and have a vet and a nurse assessor who put in a considerable amount of time.

Not having to provide an in house assesor would be a huge benefit

I do think the practical needs to be rethought a little though if its to become more important. We have had several great candidates fly through the written and fall at the practical hurdle as they were very nervous and their nervousness was not recognised or handled well.

Re: Changes to VN nursing scheme

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 12:47:47 GMT

I'm in favour of the changes

Wynne

Re: Changes to VN nursing scheme

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 08:36:43 GMT

I've published the full story here.