Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Chris Milligan — Sat, 30 Aug 2025 20:31:38 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247590#247590"]2a. I have been gazumped in the past. Rates were agreed and the work booked and confimed via their app, the work was readvertised and somone elsed booked via the app - I was ditched. It seems professional behaviour is a thing of days gone by. [/quote]

this is stupid. a sensible locum will never work there again, if it's a corporate they'll never work anywhere that corporate owns again. word gets out, bad clinics suffer. Ive seen this happen a lot. if you're a clinic that needs a locum chances are you'll need one again sometime in the future. it doesn't pay to get a bad rap for it

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Chris Milligan — Sat, 30 Aug 2025 20:29:29 GMT

[quote userid="8991" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247587#247587"]I would also politely suggest that locums stop whining about no holidays or sick pay or employment rights. You chose to be a locum. Stop banging the drum. It is pretty tiresome and will never change and to expect ?sympathy is quite bizarre. [/quote]

im not sure i've ever heard a locum do that, not one that's been a locum as a job rather than as a fleeting fancy for a few shifts. most know the score well, and their fees reflect the fact that they don't work the rest of the year. Don't like it? then don't hire them and do your own work!

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Sarah Keir — Sun, 24 Aug 2025 18:00:46 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247646#247646"]How much am I worth a day? [/quote]

As an employee, you're worth as much as someone is willing to pay (market forces etc that have been discussed). As a business owner, you're worth as much as your business can afford if you run a successful business - very different forces at work on this one, not least of which is how much do YOU think you're worth considering you could earn more if you delegated jobs to others even it meant you had to pay someone to do them.

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Sarah Keir — Sun, 24 Aug 2025 17:53:46 GMT

[quote userid="29183" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247634#247634"]We list the things we dont get as a locum to explain where the charges come from.[/quote]

Perhaps its time I updated my article.

https://www.sarahthevet.com/2023/05/08/the-true-costs-of-locums-vs-employees/

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

William Easson — Thu, 21 Aug 2025 11:07:52 GMT

This is an aspect that needs considering.

It's hard to compete with some colleagues because they approach cases in a different way; acute haemorrhagic diarrhoea syndrome as an example; fluids, blood profile (inc DDimer, C-RP), analgesics, additional tests/medication as indicated as the case progresses v Ultrasound, radiographs, blood profiles, fluids, antibiotics (don't get me started), constant-rate infusions.

Other cases where I had done in one case a caesarian section and another a GDV so quickly that the time-based charge for the surgery out of hours had inadvertently undercut the package charge by the day practice (those were odd complaints to field). These are situations where experience leads to disadvantage in the profit-led assessments of vets.

In both cases the outcome is likely to be the same. The on-paper cost that management sees there is one definite winner, and one the practice owners will likely prefer.

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Dinu Catilina — Thu, 14 Aug 2025 13:29:25 GMT

[quote userid="11493" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247647#247647"]There's a recent article suggesting the hypothesis that experienced vets could become less desirable in terms of generating profits because they can solve cases cheaper.[/quote]

Yes, I heart about it. I find it disturbing that getting a reasonable profit margin requires extensive and we can even say unnecessary tests.

Also, I don't think it has anything to do with experience but with knowledge. A vet can be experienced and poorly informed and still do shitloads of tests in the hope that something is wrong. I saw young vets, very knowledgeable, who do not do every test under the sun and work their cases logically. They are slow though and this is where the experience is important.

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 14 Aug 2025 05:52:59 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247646#247646"]This thread does make me think, I'd have a much easier life selling the practice to the corporates and going off and being a locum. [/quote]

I thinks that's a given.

But easier doesn't necessarily mean happier. We all choose our own route in life. You've previously said you get most of your life's happiness and satisfaction from your work, and financial gain isn't your biggest motivator. That genuinely admirable. Lots of people do live for their work. Nothing wrong with that if it makes you happy.

Other people choose a different route, for many different reasons. Money opens doors and opportunities to live a different kind of life. There's nothing wrong with wanting to earn enough to be able to do that either.

You only get one spin of this particular wheel, and it's over pretty quickly.

[quote userid="3169" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247646#247646"]How much am I worth a day?[/quote]

How much would you pay for you? (Employee or locum.) From what you've previously said, I doubt you currently pay yourself enough!

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Francisco Gomez — Thu, 14 Aug 2025 05:24:22 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247646#247646"]How much am I worth a day?[/quote]

You raise an important point.

There's a recent article suggesting the hypothesis that experienced vets could become less desirable in terms of generating profits because they can solve cases cheaper.

Maybe that touches the locum sphere too.

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 13 Aug 2025 22:32:25 GMT

[quote userid="4181" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247641#247641"]Maybe your fees need to go up to reflect these increased costs?![/quote]

They have, there is no option. Still, I'd rather book in 95% of the work we do estimates for, rather than overcharge and leave animals suffering/untreated.

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247643#247643"]Maybe, like me, he enjoys doing those other tasks such as mending the van or DIY jobs? [/quote]

I do. Had a bubble in my tire sidewall. £100 delivered for a new tyre, fitted this evening. There won't be a garage in the country fitting a Goodyear tyre to a Discovery for that.

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247644#247644"]

Probably a good thing overall that the minimum wage is increasing?

[/quote]

Yes and no. Do we really think a 23-year-old without a single qualification, work ethic or ability not to drool on the desk is worth £25,000 for a 40-hour week? I think that's too much, really. I always started staff on minimum and paid a premium for staff who did their jobs well, that's no longer affordable.

This thread does make me think, I'd have a much easier life selling the practice to the corporates and going off and being a locum. I can calve a cow and spay a bitch. Can do you a lap spay too, AI you a sheep or a cow or a dog. Plate a leg, toggle a hip, lateral suture in my sleep. Have virtually all the OV panels. Spay you a cat in 10 mins. Love a splenectomy, bitch caeser, foreign body op. Self-locking yolks, can PD over 100 cows an hour, find you twins. Brought up on open surgeries and 10 min appointments, and pretty much promise we will run to time. How much am I worth a day?

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

David Mills — Wed, 13 Aug 2025 20:24:05 GMT

[quote userid="29183" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247634#247634"]

We list the things we dont get as a locum to explain where the charges come from. When an owner/farmer asks why a service costs what it does, the explanation needs to encompass everything which contributes to that cost.

Don't confuse explanation with complaint

[/quote]

Not sure about this actually.

Vets don't list all the costs of running a business when someone is shitty about the cost.

All I'm saying is that everyone gets that you don't have employee benefits. But that doesn't really matter to practices does it? They want someone to come in and if at all possible not lose them money - as Michael Woodhouse has said that's 6x your daily rate. People are quite open about it. That's for your £450 £3600 per day. Tricky even for those with extra skills. As I say my recent experience with locums are that they're younger, slower, and less able to do things. They, on any metric, do not justify that rate.

So, when we have a pretty one sided and rather naive article detailing why locums aren't picking up shifts (sorry

Francisco Gomez) which then lists the age old costs of your self employed businesses it is pretty tiresome. We know. People know. You chose, actively, that role. There are plenty of employee roles around. No one was forced. So unfortunately we don't need explanations. And we rarely hear the other side that you do, if you're sensible, pay less tax than an employee on an equivalent wage.

And yes not wanting to travel an hour for well paid work? Do you think a builder or plumber would say the same?

What is clear from this thread is a mismatch between what locums think they are worth and what they are actually worth, along with what they think they offer compared to what practices actually want them to do. There's the answer to the OP - you think you're worth more than what is being offered, but businesses disagree. Who's to blame then?

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Clive Ansell — Wed, 13 Aug 2025 11:11:38 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247640#247640"]With the last two jumps in minimum wage and having to keep everyone else an equal step above my wage bill has risen[/quote]

Probably a good thing overall that the minimum wage is increasing?

We have the situation in this country where people earn less than those receiving state benefits - nuts! I know a RVN who threw in the towel and quit her job to go on benefits. With 4 young children and a not fit for purpose (other than tupping) husband, she just could not afford to continue working. Biggest stumbling for her was the cost of nursery and child care.

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Clive Ansell — Wed, 13 Aug 2025 11:05:43 GMT

[quote userid="2457" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247642#247642"]There's a reason other people charge more than Michael ... they don't do everything themselves![/quote]

Maybe, like me, he enjoys doing those other tasks such as mending the van or DIY jobs?

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 13 Aug 2025 09:01:54 GMT

Exactly what I was thinking. There's a reason other people charge more than Michael ... they don't do everything themselves!

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Rob Loxley — Wed, 13 Aug 2025 07:51:42 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247640#247640"]One thing I can promise you, as a business owner, is that my profit hasn't doubled in the last 7 years, it gets harder and harder each year to make a living as a business owner. With the last two jumps in minimum wage and having to keep everyone else an equal step above my wage bill has risen nearly £40,000 in the last 2 years alone and I've not increased my drawings for 4 or 5 years. The increased costs of utilities, regulation, vehicle running etc squeeze harder than ever. [/quote]

Maybe your fees need to go up to reflect these increased costs?!

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 22:52:09 GMT

[quote userid="11493" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247632#247632"]Correct! It's that now we add a massive interpretation + a fee for collection. So a 150 quid in 2018 (I remember, I had to do my own dog) is a 300 today![/quote]

I don't think £150 would be unreasonable to sedate a dog, open a kit, gloves, sutures, take some skin biposies, it would be daylight robbery for a 30 second FNA or ear swab collection. I couldn't sleep straight in bed charging that out at £300......

[quote userid="11493" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247632#247632"]How can we be quiet about how much these have changed over the last 7 years, and permanent employees and locum alike are growing so little? Both are practice expenses.[/quote]

One thing I can promise you, as a business owner, is that my profit hasn't doubled in the last 7 years, it gets harder and harder each year to make a living as a business owner. With the last two jumps in minimum wage and having to keep everyone else an equal step above my wage bill has risen nearly £40,000 in the last 2 years alone and I've not increased my drawings for 4 or 5 years. The increased costs of utilities, regulation, vehicle running etc squeeze harder than ever. The only thing I pay a tradesman to do is something where someone needs a certificate, or something I can't do. I won't have spent £500 on tradesmen in the last 2 years. Do most of my own vehicle maintenance. I do pay someone to mow the lawns in front of the surgery.

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 20:46:44 GMT

Locums are like a box of chocolates , you never know what you’re going to get , also can be expensive but worth it

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 17:02:05 GMT

[quote userid="11493" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247637#247637"]then about 30-40 for collection, then your lab fee, and then an interpretation fee of around 60...[/quote]

I know this is way off the thread, but Jeeeeeeeez......Once again the words "rip" and "off" spring to mind.

Anyway.

A long time ago when i was hiring locums, one of the best I ever had was a very experienced gentleman who saw it as his job to put things off or tide things over, until I got back.Fine by me. One of the worst was a very experienced gentleman who had owned his own practice in Canada, who referred things unnecessarily and constantly griped and moaned about how the facilities weren't up to his standards. It was the latter chap who lost me several clients.

In those days, one hired a locum by the day, and since a day is 24 hours and the practice is single-handed,he or she was, like me, on duty 24 hours. I gave them a premium for everything they saw "out of hours".

Locums never ever paid for themselves in actual fees. I regarded them as an unfortunate but necessary extra cost for my holiday.

How times change.

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 15:24:21 GMT

[quote userid="9239" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247636#247636"]Jesus effing Christ,[/quote]

I visit many many practices- so I meant 'we' as the practices I visit, where more than one person works. Apologies for not being specific enough.

Usually it goes as 60-80 for consultation, then about 30-40 for collection, then your lab fee, and then an interpretation fee of around 60... this is ballpark, but many of the places I go that's the standard charge.

I'm not disputing the charge at all, and as William said earlier, I'm trying to explain not complain. I'm simply stating that that for that same procedure (and for many others across the board) prices have simply double while salaries or locum charges have not.

I remember that a very well known ophthalmologist at a multidisciplinary centre used to say 'Enucleation is not an specialised procedure, perhaps go to your referring vet where it can be done cheaper', for what the owner responded "Au contraire!...." (all this could be a tangent, perhaps)

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Dinu Catilina — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 15:13:23 GMT

[quote userid="11493" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247632#247632"] It's that now we add a massive interpretation + a fee for collection. So a 150 quid in 2018 (I remember, I had to do my own dog) is a 300 today![/quote]

Who's that "we"? Jesus effing Christ, is anyone really charging 150-300 pounds for interpretation?

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Clive Ansell — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 09:58:09 GMT

[quote userid="2457" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247611#247611"]

The builder tells you they want £500. You decide you only want to pay £400 so you don't employ them. You either find someone who will do it for £400, or you don't get the work done. Whether the quality of the work is reflected in the price is another aspect... But that's why I said that if the value is there, then they'll usually pay the higher rate. It depends what needs doing.

Locums (or builders) can set whatever rate they wish. But practices - or homeowners - don't have to pay it. At the end of the day, it is the homeowners who will decide what rates they will pay.

[/quote]

One can always try and negotiate, locum or builder.

Less so now, but I've had many independent practice owner tell my rates are higher than they want to pay, so often we would both reconsider and reach an amicable solution by changing rate or working hours. If we couldn't agree then either they or I would decline and go our separate ways.

I've often negotiated with tradesfolk over work. Sometimes they will change their quote/estimate, sometimes they won't. Last one was a roofer, he wouldn't budge at all - gave me very short shrift and told me if I want cheap to look elsewhere. He has a good reputation, uses the best materials and guarantees his work for 10 years - I hired him.

Back to locum work. I have negotiated via the corporate CVS app before, sometimes they will, but usually they won't budge from the daily £400 offered.

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

William Easson — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 07:17:28 GMT

Don't confuse explanation with complaint.

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 06:53:02 GMT

[quote userid="8991" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247627#247627"] we have a lot of inexperienced locums 2-5y out (who knows? Maybe that's a good survey to do)[/quote]

How do we go about this?

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 06:51:59 GMT

[quote userid="2457" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31225/why-are-locums-getting-flooded-by-shifts-they-just-won-t-do/247631#247631"]fees should be charged to the client and any interpretation[/quote]

Correct! It's that now we add a massive interpretation + a fee for collection. So a 150 quid in 2018 (I remember, I had to do my own dog) is a 300 today!

How can we be quiet about how much these have changed over the last 7 years, and permanent employees and locum alike are growing so little? Both are practice expenses.

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 06:17:26 GMT

Sorry ...a tangent but on that subject ... I think some managers seem to be unaware of previously stipulated rules on charging lab fees. That the lab fees should be charged to the client and any interpretation, handling fees or 'markups' charged separately and transparently It'll be interesting to see if the competition commission pick up on it.

RE: Why are locums getting flooded by shifts they just won't do?

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 12 Aug 2025 06:14:29 GMT

Absolutely, but just because prices have increased in some areas of their business doesn't mean yours should. They set their prices to reflect their costs and desired profit margins. You do the same. How they relate to eachother affects them more than you.