What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Judith Joyce — Thu, 08 May 2025 09:07:23 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31154/what-do-you-think-are-the-most-common-veterinary-myths/247169#247169"]which I am not well qualified to interpret[/quote]

And one, at least , has shown itself to be litigious. Does the CMA stuff help? I think using CMA terminology of LVG rather than corporate might also be useful. Might it be better to concentrate on the positives from the Indies and SPVS and leave the LVGs to fill the gaps themselves, as they already are in response to CMA investigation. . Admittedly that may have already resulted in a bit of hyperbole (implication in FT in January that LVGs brought maternity employment rights to the profession, vague insinuation that LVGs have introduced advanced DI to the industry). Not financials admittedly but someone might feel moved to show some numbers.

The very LVGs also have to have CSR/ESG reports under s. 172 Companies Act 2006. They can make fun reading which might help, but I think the looseness of the rules leaves them open to a bit of green and blue washing.

There are quite a lot of folk out there (and I'd be fairly sure some in this group), who could help interpret the financials that are there but quite a lot of information is deliberately vague.

Have you spoken to those who are helping the new Indies with funding and expertise?

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 08 May 2025 08:21:27 GMT

[quote userid="3584" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31154/what-do-you-think-are-the-most-common-veterinary-myths/247168#247168"]That profit margins are huge and we are milking it. Can we do that one first?[/quote]

Sort of an extension of some of the films I’ve already made. But yes. OK. There are three myths in one there. One is that individual vets are milking it / paid loadsamoney, which I can debunk with SPVS data. The other is that indies are milking it, and I have a case study from a practice owner I can use for that. The last is that corporates are not milking it, which is more challenging- not because they are, but because they wont share financial info with me beyond what is in the public domain, which I am not well qualified to interpret. Hmmm….

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Noweia — Wed, 07 May 2025 16:53:54 GMT

That profit margins are huge and we are milking it. Can we do that one first?

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 07 May 2025 15:57:33 GMT

Right .... I've been a bit diverted for a couple of weeks, but now back on the case. A local vet has kindly offered to potentially help me with a film location / stunt dog / vet appearance as needed.

By the by, I've also just managed to get a gig filming a review of the Porsche Taycan electric vehicle, which will be fun. Doing that this weekend, after which I'll be concentrating on these films.

What I'd really like to do is start with ONE consumer myth, and ONE vet myth, just to get the first ones under my belt and then we can see where we go from there.

So which do you think is THE MOST COMMON consumer myth / madness vets hear from clients?

Is it: "But the breeder said so". If it is, and that is the film we should start with, then I would need as many of you as possible to think of examples of the more bonkers things (or not so bonkers, but still wrong), that you have heard from owners who were told it by their breeder.

Or is it some form of quackery, like homeopathy, or something else, like bathing deals with fleas?

As for the vet myth, I wonder which of David Mills list we should tackle first? Which do you think is the most commonly misunderstood topic?

I am thinking that for consumer mythbusting, I may present (as no vested interest / independent), but introduce expert or vet to speak as well.

For vet mythbusting, I'd be more inclined to try and find a knowledgeable vet on each subject to make the case.

Thoughts?

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 14 Apr 2025 11:00:32 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31154/what-do-you-think-are-the-most-common-veterinary-myths/247003#247003"]Another one is that we should not use continuous sutures in midlines, I have even been told by a practice owner that it is negligent to do so.[/quote]

Which is ironic, because I got marked down doing a case report for my CertAVP many moons ago for saying that I used simple interrupted sutures. The person marking it stated 'the midline should be closed with a continuous pattern suture'.

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Clive Ansell — Thu, 10 Apr 2025 15:13:12 GMT

Another one is that we should not use continuous sutures in midlines, I have even been told by a practice owner that it is negligent to do so.

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 10 Apr 2025 09:35:16 GMT

[quote userid="10320" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31154/what-do-you-think-are-the-most-common-veterinary-myths/246996#246996"](I'm am elder millennial, so yes, that "like" is critical to the sentence structure and has to be included)[/quote]

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Lucy Fleming — Wed, 09 Apr 2025 23:17:47 GMT

Parvo just smells like any other HGE

I actually use it as a follow up question after "have you seen any blood in the stool?"..."so, obviously it won't smell nice, but does it smell, like, *really* grim?". The smell question yields more useful results.

(I'm am elder millennial, so yes, that "like" is critical to the sentence structure and has to be included)

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Noweia — Sun, 06 Apr 2025 10:13:19 GMT

For vets: gowning and gloving is necessary for every op

Feed chicken and rice to every dog with a GI upset

For clients: a dental procedure in pets requires an anaesthetic and this is part of the reason they are expensive

"Raw fed dogs don't get allergies"

Why extending leads and harnesses are a pain in the ass and are not a substitute for training your dog to walk on a lead properly.

That a dog should be wearing a collar with a tag on it in a public place; your car and the vet practice are considered public places.

That a dog is supposed to be microchipped BEFORE you buy it and if you can't afford that then you maybe shouldn't be buying a dog...

For me: what size of meaty bone can we give to each dog and how much meat are we talking here?

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Elizabeth — Thu, 03 Apr 2025 08:01:06 GMT

Where do people stand with 'you shouldn't neuter golden retrievers?'

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Clive Ansell — Wed, 02 Apr 2025 07:16:44 GMT

The common use of unlicenced intravenous antibiotics for cases like routine dental work, and pyometra surgery

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Clive Ansell — Wed, 02 Apr 2025 07:15:02 GMT

[quote userid="7002" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31154/what-do-you-think-are-the-most-common-veterinary-myths/246957#246957"]"It takes 7 years to be a vet"[/quote]

I think that comes from + 2 years A levels and +5 years at Uni (6 at cambridge)

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Sara Ramsey — Tue, 01 Apr 2025 19:49:38 GMT

Garlic gets rid of fleas

Rabbit ears get rid of worms

"It takes 7 years to be a vet"

Bitches must have a litter of puppies

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Rob Loxley — Tue, 01 Apr 2025 17:30:25 GMT

[quote userid="9179" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31154/what-do-you-think-are-the-most-common-veterinary-myths/246953#246953"]1. that we receive kickbacks or commission from food/drug/pet supply companies.[/quote]

Apart from the wholesaler rebate, manufacturer rebate, BOGOF deals, weighing scales provided by the pet food manufacturer, petplan reward points…!

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 01 Apr 2025 12:21:46 GMT

That's a terrific list Chris Milligan - I'm thinking which one to try first. I wonder how prevalent the parvo smelling idea is - I could do quite a funny film about that (sniffing dogs).

My breeder said ... is something I could work with, too. That I know is a very common issue. I could make a film where I go and ask a whole load of random people what to do about some problem with a cat / dog, like a plumber, baker, electrician - making the point that a breeder is no more qualified to answer a medical question about a dog.

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Chris Milligan — Mon, 31 Mar 2025 17:12:20 GMT

1. that we receive kickbacks or commission from food/drug/pet supply companies. This is a fairly universal belief if you probe clients on it

2. that it takes seven years to train to be a vet (where did this come from?!)

3. literally anything to do with joint and dental supplements

4. giving an egg stops diarrhoea (apparently this is extremely common, clients don't tell because it's assumed to be common knowledge?!)

5. bathing gets rid of fleas

6. no, you will not cause a GDV by turning feet over the top on an x-ray table

7. that you can smell parvovirus

8. that we have any idea what constitutes optimal nutrition in people let alone dogs

9. uncomfortable truth as this may be for many; that age, great bedside manner and personality correlate tightly with clinical competency

10. my breeder said x

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Clive Ansell — Thu, 27 Mar 2025 14:53:42 GMT

[quote userid="8991" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31154/what-do-you-think-are-the-most-common-veterinary-myths/246934#246934"]"The VDS won't cover you if you use catgut to do a bitch spay/cat spay/castrate/if you have it in the building"[/quote]

A long time ago I worked for a large independent group, where it was often said that the VDS wouldn't support you in the event of an anaesthetic death if you didn't have an ET tube and IV cannula placed, and had not run pre op bloods in older or ill animals.

I telephone the VDS, it was utter BS nonsense. They said they view each case as a separate entity based on circumstances and the information to hand.

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

David Mills — Thu, 27 Mar 2025 09:35:11 GMT

[quote userid="12930" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31154/what-do-you-think-are-the-most-common-veterinary-myths/246935#246935"]No dopamine receptors in cats meaning metoclopramide doesn't work can be argued to be a myth predating some evidence that it does actually work in spite of that historically stated "fact".[/quote]

I know what you're saying - distinction between myth vs discussion/opinion based medicine - but there are no, as far as I can see, clinical studies showing metoclopramide works in cats as an anti-emetic (despite its licence). One study you link of (?6) cats I cannot tell if any of the cats didn't vomit - just that they appeared to less frequently after multiple dosages of xylazine (no idea why they didn't continue the saline control group). The other is just an opinion and a theory it helps by increasing motility (really???) then links two studies showing it increases motility. There are others with similar issues out there.

Your apomoprhine comment reinforces what I'm saying - probably someone said it once, put a figure on it, and it is getting passed down...like a myth. A myth is as story passed down - so no different than opinion in many cases.

My point is that metoclopramide doesn't work in cats in my experience and we can explain this by its known mode of action. It works, to an extent, in dogs. In fact by invoking some unproven theory as to why it might work in cats - I've seen increased motility, 5HT, serotonin, some 'hidden' dopamine receptors, all mooted, is very close to mythical!

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Beats — Wed, 26 Mar 2025 23:08:05 GMT

[quote userid="8991" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31154/what-do-you-think-are-the-most-common-veterinary-myths/246931#246931"]

Beats said:
The metoclopramide in cats I would not be sure if the myth is that it does work or doesn't work. Both viewpoints are expressed and can be argued for and I am not sure what the mainstream viewpoint woudl b

They almost completely lack the dopamine receptors in the vomiting centre to make it work (its more nuanced than this, but broad brushstrokes).

It's why apomoprhine doesn't induce vomiting in cats.

It's licensed, but you may as well inject saline or piss in the cat's ear.

[/quote]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20817585/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10829162/

No dopamine receptors in cats meaning metoclopramide doesn't work can be argued to be a myth predating some evidence that it does actually work in spite of that historically stated "fact".

It has been claimed, at one point, that apomorphine induces vomiting in up to a third of cats, I believe, though I will struggle to find that easily on the internet as the general dogma has always been that it cannot be used due to lack of dopamine receptors in the cat! (I seem to recall a dose of 0.04mg/kg iv with varying suggestions of success ranging from 10%-30% being claimed at one time - please don't quote me on that or consider trying it off the back of this post though!). Everyone is in agreement that it is not the reliable emesis drug, as seen in dogs, and most are in agreement that xylazine/dexmedetomidine/medetomidine is their preferred emetic agent in the cat, but are you confident that the myth is not the opinion that apomorphine cannot be used in cats as they have no dopamine receptors in their CTZ and it thus won't work and it may induce opoid mania as it shares part of its name with morphine and at higher doses has been seen to cause excitabie behaviour?

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

David Mills — Wed, 26 Mar 2025 17:49:31 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31154/what-do-you-think-are-the-most-common-veterinary-myths/246932#246932"]3. It is incompetent or negligent to suture a linea alba with a simple continuous suture. [/quote]

"The VDS won't cover you if you use catgut to do a bitch spay/cat spay/castrate/if you have it in the building"

"Catgut causes excessive tissue reaction" (actually in rat models, vicryl and PDS cause MORE after 2-4 weeks, go figure).

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Clive Ansell — Wed, 26 Mar 2025 16:50:10 GMT

Other Myths/Dogma

1. Metacam cannot be given preoperatively as part of a pre-med as it causes renal failure.

2. Metacam cannot be prescribed for OA unless blood tests are run every 3, 6 or 12 months.

3. It is incompetent or negligent to suture a linea alba with a simple continuous suture.

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

David Mills — Wed, 26 Mar 2025 13:49:24 GMT

[quote userid="12930" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31154/what-do-you-think-are-the-most-common-veterinary-myths/246884#246884"]The metoclopramide in cats I would not be sure if the myth is that it does work or doesn't work. Both viewpoints are expressed and can be argued for and I am not sure what the mainstream viewpoint woudl b[/quote]

They almost completely lack the dopamine receptors in the vomiting centre to make it work (its more nuanced than this, but broad brushstrokes).

It's why apomoprhine doesn't induce vomiting in cats.

It's licensed, but you may as well inject saline or piss in the cat's ear.

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

David Mills — Wed, 26 Mar 2025 13:42:25 GMT

[quote userid="9239" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31154/what-do-you-think-are-the-most-common-veterinary-myths/246923#246923"]Well, look at this VetGDP feedback:[/quote]

That is one vet peer reviewing the vet GDP submission - it isn't RCVS policy or anything like that! And these opinions are widespread so it isn't that surprising.

These things are cyclical.

I remember at college a ST surgeon saying "there's no point taking a lump off unless you histo it".

There are dentists, and their acolytes, who think no denistry should be be done without radiography.

I'm not sure if it's dentistry itself or just because it's a large part of 1st opinion practice but it seems to attract these pronouncements regularly. Nerve blocks a few years ago was another. People still argue about bones and teeth. I sometimes ponder why - given how common it is as a procedure - why denistry evidence is so depessingly, awfully poor for the most part. So we are left with the (no doubt well-intentioned) opinion factory (and these opinions often brook no argument).

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Dinu Catilina — Tue, 25 Mar 2025 21:31:46 GMT

[quote userid="8991" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31154/what-do-you-think-are-the-most-common-veterinary-myths/246881#246881"]

Clive Ansell said:
Dental radiography in necessary in first opinion practice: myth or not?, mandatory? ideal? an add to make money? not needed?

Not needed, not mandatory, most dentistry is extraction or leave.

[/quote]

Well, look at this VetGDP feedback:

RE: What do you think are the most common veterinary myths?

Nicola Robinson — Sun, 23 Mar 2025 21:36:09 GMT

[quote userid="8958" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31154/what-do-you-think-are-the-most-common-veterinary-myths/246877#246877"]Well, I locummed once at a practice where the owner was a real raw meaty bones type and most of his clents were on raw bones and Raw. I have never seen such a group of dogs with great teeth.[/quote]

Couldn't agree with this more. This is definitely not a myth. I worked in Australia as a vet for 4 years and it was completely normal to feed raw meaty bones. All the dogs had lovely white teeth with hardly any dental issues. I must have had to carry out dentals only a handful of times.

I came back to England quite excited about sharing how brilliant this was - it was healthy, nutritious, great for occupying dogs (they would knaw on them for hours) and most importantly they could avoid GAs and dentals. It was met with a resounding 'no' from all the vets I spoke to.

To this day I am shocked by how many vets do not see the benefits and now quick they are to dismiss it. Yes, slab fractures can occur but it is not often and you have to know which bones are suitable for the size of dog. I feed my dogs raw bones and they have all had sparkling pearly whites!