Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Judith Joyce — Sat, 19 Apr 2025 09:28:24 GMT

I intended to reply that companies are comprised of compromised humans but I think events have overtaken me

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Arlo Guthrie — Sat, 05 Apr 2025 08:24:36 GMT

[quote userid="13891" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246964#246964"]Following Arlo’s news item this morning, could someone explain to me why IVC are threatening Indies over trademarks now[/quote]

I don't believe the threat of legal action has changed - IVC was and is challenging other practices' use of Pet Health Club.

[quote userid="13891" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246964#246964"]Wonder what shareholders think of this as a way of fulfilling obligation to maximise profit?[/quote]

I doubt shareholders have any idea.

[quote userid="13891" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246964#246964"]i know companies are legal entities not humans but think they can still shoot themselves in the foot[/quote]

Yeah, but companies are all comprised of humans, which I think might have a greater capacity to shoot themselves in the feet, hands, arms and face when decisions are made as a group. Certainly makes it harder and slower to reverse a bad judgement call.

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Judith Joyce — Fri, 04 Apr 2025 09:25:48 GMT

Following Arlo’s news item this morning, could someone explain to me why IVC are threatening Indies over trademarks now - with the CMA breathing down our necks they may be helpfully attracting attention to themselves with a bit of Possibly anti competitive behaviour not attributable to consumer interests or animal welfare that I can see.

The Spartacus group is brilliant for supporting everyone and hiring the lawyer. Is there an advantage still to everyone responding individually rather than as a group is to maximise IVCS legal bills. I think the technical term is ‘bxxggeration value’?

Wonder what shareholders think of this as a way of fulfilling obligation to maximise profit?

I’m bemused - i know companies are legal entities not humans but think they can still shoot themselves in the foot

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Gerry Henry — Thu, 20 Mar 2025 08:09:50 GMT

Did you say Florence of Belgravia ?
Re Pet Health Clubs - they’re just a scam to justify overprescribing wormers and insecticides. The public are getting wise to this stuff - at last.

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 19 Mar 2025 18:13:38 GMT

[quote userid="2131" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246847#246847"]By the way, Arlo, is that Mrs. Guthrie on a camel behind yours?[/quote]

Tis indeed. And yes, I think it is safe to say she is more in control by almost any measure you care to use, including but by no means limited to camels!

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 19 Mar 2025 15:56:37 GMT

It's reminiscent of Betty's quietly trademarking "Fat Rascals" and then threatening other bakers who have been using this traditional name for years.

By the way, Arlo, is that Mrs. Guthrie on a camel behind yours? She certainly seems more in control than you are.

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Ben Walker — Sat, 15 Mar 2025 12:52:29 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246838#246838"]Maybe, but in my opinion it is still misleading and possibly dishonest. I've met many clients who genuinely think they are attending a ye olde local independent practice, when they are not. [/quote]

This would fall under the ASA's remit if the company name is used to mislead. The ASA takes company names and URLs into account and is fairly strict on claims of independence. The question is whether IVC's adverts as a whole are misleading. I don't know if having "Independent Vetcare Limited" at the bottom of a website as the ultimate owner of a trading name would be sufficient.

The CMA is probably the better determinant of this as it might be legitimate under advertising guidelines but still not fair to consumers.

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Judith Joyce — Sat, 15 Mar 2025 12:42:54 GMT

And Hotel Chocolat is owned by Mars - so there is a comparison

Hopefully we can demonstrate a difference between chocolate and the veterinary profession to the CMA.

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Clive Ansell — Sat, 15 Mar 2025 10:07:04 GMT

[quote userid="13891" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246836#246836"]Don't think that can happen - that's how it works. They buy the company and the brand. Hotel Chocolat is still called Hotel Chocolat and Green and Black's is still called Green and Black's [/quote]

Maybe, but in my opinion it is still misleading and possibly dishonest. I've met many clients who genuinely think they are attending a ye olde local independent practice, when they are not.

I don't know if it is the same thing with the chocolate? . It is no longer Green and Black's; it became Cadbury --> Kraft foods --> Mondelēz . Could still be exactly the same product though I suppose, whereas veterinary services have changed despite the branding.

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Judith Joyce — Sat, 15 Mar 2025 09:56:19 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246828#246828"] think it is rather nice that IVC allows its practices to retain their identitie[/quote]

Not sure its got anything to do with 'niceness'

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Judith Joyce — Sat, 15 Mar 2025 09:53:38 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246827#246827"]should be held to account for giving the impression that their practices are still independent[/quote]

Don't think that can happen - that's how it works. They buy the company and the brand. Hotel Chocolat is still called Hotel Chocolat and Green and Black's is still called Green and Black's

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Clive Ansell — Sat, 15 Mar 2025 09:26:03 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246834#246834"]

Dinu Catilina said:
The identity is gone once the previous owner and half of the old team looks for jobs someplace else.

Wherupon the practice assumes the identity of the new team.

[/quote]

Often , there isn't a new team at least not in the short term.

In 7 practices that I used to locum for that sold out to corporates, almost all of the staff left either immediately or within 6 months. Finding replacements takes a long time, and often they don't stay long, so they tend to survive day to day on an endless stream of changing locums, and moving staff across branches.

One of the comments I come across a lot from clients migrating from corporate practices, is there is no longer a team spirit or any continuity of familiar vets and nurses. One client said she was fed up of seeing locum of the day.

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Arlo Guthrie — Sat, 15 Mar 2025 09:04:51 GMT

[quote userid="9239" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246830#246830"]The identity is gone once the previous owner and half of the old team looks for jobs someplace else.[/quote]

Wherupon the practice assumes the identity of the new team.

[quote userid="9239" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246830#246830"]

An amazing idea, why not changing them all to IVC, Pets at Home vets are doing fine with all practices under the same name.

[/quote]

Except that if this idea has merit:

[quote userid="19431" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246829#246829"]Perhaps the independent practices involved should club together and sue IVC for being misleading and using the term Independent in their title? Just a very tongue-in-cheek thought on a Friday afternoon after a long week![/quote]

then why not change them all to

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Clive Ansell — Fri, 14 Mar 2025 21:12:38 GMT

Maybe one for trading standards?

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Dinu Catilina — Fri, 14 Mar 2025 17:38:38 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246828#246828"]I must say, I think it is rather nice that IVC allows its practices to retain their identities.[/quote]

They retain the name and not their identities. The identity is gone once the previous owner and half of the old team looks for jobs someplace else.

An amazing idea, why not changing them all to IVC, Pets at Home vets are doing fine with all practices under the same name.

And sorry to be petty yet again but Pet Health Club is a misleading name. Pets are not automatically healthier just because they are subscribed to a regular worm and flea treatment or vaccination.

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Steven Odell — Fri, 14 Mar 2025 17:29:10 GMT

Perhaps the independent practices involved should club together and sue IVC for being misleading and using the term Independent in their title? Just a very tongue-in-cheek thought on a Friday afternoon after a long week!

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 14 Mar 2025 17:03:01 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246827#246827"]Actually, I sometimes wonder whether IVC, or any other corporate, should be held to account for giving the impression that their practices are still independent when they are not; they often trade with the same name after takeover, and very little changes front of house. Many/most clients are unaware that their practice has been taken over by a large corporation, unless they read the very small print at the bottom of their invoice.[/quote]

I must say, I think it is rather nice that IVC allows its practices to retain their identities. I cant bear the awful homogenised blandness of big chains - and I am sure that the CMA will demand that ownership is more prominently signposted.

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Clive Ansell — Fri, 14 Mar 2025 15:29:13 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246826#246826"]I am surprised IVC went for the generic pet health club, and didnt have its system set up so that it automatically becomes the "NameofIVCpractice Pet Health Club" when the client picks a practice, transferable to another IVC practice if they move area, for example. [/quote]

Actually, I sometimes wonder whether IVC, or any other corporate, should be held to account for giving the impression that their practices are still independent when they are not; they often trade with the same name after takeover, and very little changes front of house. Many/most clients are unaware that their practice has been taken over by a large corporation, unless they read the very small print at the bottom of their invoice.

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 14 Mar 2025 15:06:11 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246824#246824"]I don't profess to know very much about advertising, branding or marketing, but surely using ones own name or practice name, such as "Arlo Vets Care Plan" would be more meaningful and personal than something generic like Pet Health Club? [/quote]

Laughed out loud - I'm not sure it takes a marketing guru to figure that one out. Actually, I am surprised IVC went for the generic pet health club, and didnt have its system set up so that it automatically becomes the "NameofIVCpractice Pet Health Club" when the client picks a practice, transferable to another IVC practice if they move area, for example.

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Clive Ansell — Fri, 14 Mar 2025 14:29:26 GMT

[quote userid="13891" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246812#246812"]Agree with the comments on pet health clubs/healthy pet clubs (no-one's in particular), especially the bit about potentially encouraging potential overuse of parasiticides.[/quote]

I think it is an area the college should be looking into. They have already issued addition guidance to encourage the responsible prescribing of anti-parasitic drugs, yet patients on most health club type schemes get them on a regular basis regardless or not of need. Some of the PMS even have templates to enable prescribing with one simple click of a mouse.

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Clive Ansell — Fri, 14 Mar 2025 14:19:29 GMT

I don't profess to know very much about advertising, branding or marketing, but surely using ones own name or practice name, such as "Arlo Vets Care Plan" would be more meaningful and personal than something generic like Pet Health Club?

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Judith Joyce — Thu, 13 Mar 2025 17:59:18 GMT

[quote userid="25265" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246816#246816"]I think IVC are perfectly entitled to do this. But I also think it's mean.[/quote]

Sadly, I agree - so maybe imperfectly entitled. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Judith Joyce — Thu, 13 Mar 2025 17:19:57 GMT

[quote userid="25265" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246821#246821"]Which is where we disagree. I don’t think it is a generic term and I think the usage is generally as a name for the plan and not a description of the plan.[/quote]

And where some folk may spend a lot of money on lawyers fees without getting anywhere?

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Ben Walker — Thu, 13 Mar 2025 16:57:43 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246820#246820"]I don't think it's naive not to consider that a generic term like 'pet health club' might be trademarkable.[/quote]

Which is where we disagree. I don’t think it is a generic term and I think the usage is generally as a name for the plan and not a description of the plan.

RE: Has anyone here had a threat from IVC?

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 13 Mar 2025 16:51:55 GMT

[quote userid="25265" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31150/has-anyone-here-had-a-threat-from-ivc/246819#246819"]They were just a little naïve.[/quote]

I don't think it's naive not to consider that a generic term like 'pet health club' might be trademarkable. I mean, you can not know something without being 'naive'.