[Film] What is your dog worth?

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 17 Feb 2025 10:24:19 GMT

[quote userid="3607" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246593#246593"]All citizens should expect, and indeed be happy to pay tax.[/quote]

Which is challenging, of course, because for that, most people like to see they're getting value for money, that its being spent the way they want, that it is fair and that they are not paying too much of it (else where is the incentive to work in the first place?).

[quote userid="3607" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246593#246593"] Finally, I favour a reduction of direct personal taxation in favour of a substantial increase in VAT - a transaction tax that inevitably leads to wealthier individuals who have more to spend, contributing more to the exchequer. Obviously, food and ALL other basic essentials should remain/become VAT exempt.[/quote]

Can I recommend this book to you. It's a short but very interesting read (written by a good friend of mine, but I'm not on commission!)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Z-Inequality-Sebastian-Chambers-ebook/dp/B09ZVN1HDW

The free (extended) version is: https://www.a-zofinequality.com/

I hasten to add that the author is by no means a proponent of 'bash the rich' ideology. He is all about fairness.

I'm thinking about making a film about this book.

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Malcolm Ness — Mon, 17 Feb 2025 09:14:24 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246588#246588"]Thinking that presumably bigger tax breaks for rich people[/quote]

Without straying too far into things political, the question of taxation is always a thorny one and almost invariably misrepresented. The super rich have become so almost always either because they inherited from super-rich parents (the family formerly known as Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, for example) or, more conspicuously these days, because they have benefitted from company-related tax breaks (the odious Elon or Mr Bezos are examples). The 'rich people' that are typically targeted by ambitious politicians, in the UK at least, are usually already contributing considerably, and usually disproportionately (percentage-wise) to the tax coffers. They are also, to a large extent, the entrepreneurs, employers and wealth-creators upon whom the country relies. The super-rich typically acquire their money trans-nationally and benefit enormously through 'tax breaks' offered by dodgy governments - the tax havens of the Caribbean are notorious but closer to home and financially more significant in depriving UK PLC of tax dollars, are the tax havens nurtured by and within the EU. The rash of multinationals domiciled in Dublin or Luxembourg aren't there because the directors like Guinness!

The biggest problem with taxing the rich is that people invariably define the rich as folk that are richer than them. So, in response to your point, I think that there should be a wide acknowledgement that government spending, whether on welfare, defence or infrastructure is predicated on taxation. All citizens should expect, and indeed be happy to pay tax. Corporations operating in a country should pay their fair share of tax to that country - tax preference/tax havens should be outlawed for individuals and more especially for corporations - even if it it is 'nice, familiar' corporations like Amazon etc operating from tax-shelters in 'nice, friendly' states like Schengen. Finally, I favour a reduction of direct personal taxation in favour of a substantial increase in VAT - a transaction tax that inevitably leads to wealthier individuals who have more to spend, contributing more to the exchequer. Obviously, food and ALL other basic essentials should remain/become VAT exempt.

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Malcolm Ness — Mon, 17 Feb 2025 08:54:04 GMT

[quote userid="8663" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246585#246585"]University teaching inevitably presents [/quote]

Surely only 'inevitable' if the teachers are either doctrinally opposed to teaching any other way or, as is more often the case nowadays, lacking the essential underpinning skills/knowledge and the experience of everyday clinical practice to do other than rinse and repeat the narrow silliness that they themselves were taught.

I agree that the GS concept pre-dated the recent rash of corporate mergers and acquisitions but it can be argued that it came consequent to the effective corporatisation of the veterinary schools.

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Arlo Guthrie — Sun, 16 Feb 2025 17:48:26 GMT

[quote userid="3607" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246582#246582"]It is appropriate, I think, for people to make ethical judgements about how they spend their own money. The idea with which I took issue was that OTHERS might have agency in how somebody might choose to spend their own money.[/quote]

I think we are in complete agreement, then!

I think I said somewhere along the line that ethics / morality are very personal things, like one's appetite for risk, as I learned during COVID.

I certainly wouldn't presume to dictate what other people's appetite for risk, or morality should or should not be.

I was just making the case that perhaps its a question people might consider more (many people I have spoken to over the last few days had not even considered the idea that there should be any ethical or moral aspect to how one spends one's own money, provided it is legal).

[quote userid="3607" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246582#246582"]Yes, but they tend to think about it in a very parochial and egocentric manner.[/quote]

You mean as in whether the avocado was flown in?

[quote userid="3607" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246582#246582"] They really consider, for example, the ethics of the national/familial/racial privilege that allowed them to buy their big house (or spend 'too much' money on their pets) in the first place.[/quote]

I wonder, though, how much bearing historical events has on the morality of spending today.

Put simplistically, if I inherited £10 million and was considering how to spend it, it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to me how the money was made in the first place. I would base my decisions based on the facts as they exist today. I have £10M in the bank, how do I want to use it?

That would very much be affected by the plight of others who lack my privilege, whether in my own country or elsewhere, and I am sure that is part of the decision making process for anyone who decides to invest in or share their good fortune with people who are less fortunate.

[quote userid="3607" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246582#246582"]The 'trickle down' effect was popularised by Ronald Reagan and his predecessors drawing, to a significant extent, on the ideas of the earlier and arguably more left-wing British economist John Maynard Keynes. It is derided (fashionably, ignorantly and self-servingly) by politicians of the centre-left, largely to disguise the failure of their own trade and tax policies to drive, or even merely facilitate the trickle-down.[/quote]

Very interesting, thank you. I'm wondering what kinds of trade and tax policies could facilitate or drive trickle-down. Thinking that presumably bigger tax breaks for rich people.

[quote userid="3607" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246582#246582"]Re-focusing on the UK veterinary arena, we have contributed to making pet ownership unaffordable to a large and increasing part of the citizenry of this country through our conviction of the virtue of the 'Gold standard'; through our retreat from pragmatic veterinary care delivered by a wealth of competent but unexceptional generalists to the veneration of specialism and specialists. The 24/7 veterinary care that was almost universally available and generally affordable has been subsumed by 'ECC' which is much less accessible both geographically and financially. It is simply nonsensical that as a profession we have allowed the evolution of practices that can spey a bitch at 11 o clock on a Friday morning discharging it back into the owners' care at 5 o'clock before shutting up shop completely for the weekend, severing all contact with the owner until the next week. Should a complication develop, or even if the owner thinks that there might be a problem, they are obliged to travel, often a considerable distance, to a special ECC provider who will charge them more to enter their building than they paid to have the bitch speyed in the first place. I would argue that the more pressing ethical dilemmas facing our profession are to be found at this end of the discourse[/quote]

Again, very interesting and I think well made point for which thank you again.

[quote userid="3607" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246582#246582"]the avariciously driven desire to dictate to wealthy individuals how to spend their money is a distraction.[/quote]

Again, I dont think it's right to dictate how wealthy people spend their money (still less am I avaricious!), I was questioning whether there was a moral aspect to excessive spending per se, specifically in this discussion on animals.

But thinking about what you've written, I think I am inclined to agree with you, that even if there was an argument to be made against people spending (what most people would consider to be) silly amounts of money on a dog, the ethical issues you raise are more pressing.

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Alasdair Hotston Moore — Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:46:04 GMT

[quote userid="4181" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246584#246584"]Was this ever solely the conviction of the frontline vets[/quote]

I think the GS idea preceded corporatisation. University teaching inevitably presents a list of diagnostic and treatment options and this can be interpreted as 'you should do all of these', and some clinical teachers of post grads also present a single option as best with others seen as very second rate.

My own experience of corporate life wasn't that I was pushed to deliver a GS (although I accept I may not have been typical) and neither did I push others to do the same.

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Rob Loxley — Sun, 16 Feb 2025 14:10:30 GMT

[quote userid="3607" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246582#246582"]our conviction of the virtue of the 'Gold standard'[/quote]

Was this ever solely the conviction of the frontline vets, or how much was this pushed by corporates looking at increased sales and profit, how much by teaching performed by specialists at university, the push from somewhere (where I’m not quite sure) of a need to practice defensive medicine?

[quote userid="3607" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246582#246582"]pragmatic veterinary care delivered by a wealth of competent but unexceptional generalists[/quote]

Tagline for a practice?!

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Malcolm Ness — Sun, 16 Feb 2025 13:06:36 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246573#246573"]But then again, these days people DO make ethical judgements about where they spend it.[/quote]

Back in the room! It is appropriate, I think, for people to make ethical judgements about how they spend their own money. The idea with which I took issue was that OTHERS might have agency in how somebody might choose to spend their own money. Money is but one of the issues that will influence the veterinary care of a patient. As with any questions of ethics/morality/'acceptable behaviour' there is a complexity of cultural, political, religious and class-related undertow. Some cultures and religions effectively forbid pet keeping/pet care and even amongst UK WASPs, for example, a sum of say, £10,000.00 will be, for the majority an impossibly large sum to spend on anything, let alone pet-care. For a few others it is less than their daily income.

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246573#246573"]Thatcher started it. Blair continued.[/quote]

I think your timing and attribution of responsibility/blame is wrong here. 'Excessive' consumption, defined as that over and above what is needed for survival and procreation, became available to the proletariat with the advent of capitalism and while that is difficult to date with precision, Adam Smith is credited with being one of the first to consider and write about the subject. His Wealth of Nations was published in 1776, some long time before Thatcher or Blair.

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246573#246573"]And it doesnt preclude people buying big houses, it just makes them perhaps think about the sense of it, and whether there are better, more ethical ways of spending it.[/quote]

Yes, but they tend to think about it in a very parochial and egocentric manner. They rarely consider, for example, the ethics of the national/familial/racial privilege that allowed them to buy their big house (or spend 'too much' money on their pets) in the first place. Less frequently still, I would venture, do they consider the plight of those others who lack their privilege, whether the impoverished of their own country, the escalating numbers of economic migrants or those left behind in what the bellicose orang man-child once described and the 'shit hole' countries, people who can barely afford to feed themselves let alone provide sustenance for a pet.

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246573#246573"]during which time the argument has always been that the money filters down from the super rich[/quote]

The 'trickle down' effect was popularised by Ronald Reagan and his predecessors drawing, to a significant extent, on the ideas of the earlier and arguably more left-wing British economist John Maynard Keynes. It is derided (fashionably, ignorantly and self-servingly) by politicians of the centre-left, largely to disguise the failure of their own trade and tax policies to drive, or even merely facilitate the trickle-down. As long as self-serving billionaires are venerated in the US for being nothing more than self-serving billionaires, and as long as the EU's Brussels Oligarchy is content to create, nurture and protect international tax havens in Eire, The Netherlands or Luxembourg, facilities exploited by those same self-serving billionaires (alongside some that were home-grown), then nothing will change. That is a failure of governance and an ethical failure.

Re-focusing on the UK veterinary arena, we have contributed to making pet ownership unaffordable to a large and increasing part of the citizenry of this country through our conviction of the virtue of the 'Gold standard'; through our retreat from pragmatic veterinary care delivered by a wealth of competent but unexceptional generalists to the veneration of specialism and specialists. The 24/7 veterinary care that was almost universally available and generally affordable has been subsumed by 'ECC' which is much less accessible both geographically and financially. It is simply nonsensical that as a profession we have allowed the evolution of practices that can spey a bitch at 11 o clock on a Friday morning discharging it back into the owners' care at 5 o'clock before shutting up shop completely for the weekend, severing all contact with the owner until the next week. Should a complication develop, or even if the owner thinks that there might be a problem, they are obliged to travel, often a considerable distance, to a special ECC provider who will charge them more to enter their building than they paid to have the bitch speyed in the first place. I would argue that the more pressing ethical dilemmas facing our profession are to be found at this end of the discourse - the avariciously driven desire to dictate to wealthy individuals how to spend their money is a distraction.

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Judith Joyce — Sun, 16 Feb 2025 11:52:07 GMT

I think the reason I put no limit was because I couldn't put a particular number on it, so does that just mean iI found it hard to objective about ethics.

You could start at the basics with a different question. Is it ethical to own a pet? They use up resources and contribute to carbon footprint, pharmaceutical contamination and waste disposal problems. Spending more on their treatment costs the planet. If you've got over that hurdle personally, is it an ethical question, or affordability question.

Would we spend more on 'more worthy' things if we didn't spend it on pets - think I'm going the same way as you Arlo, definitely debating above my pay grade.

Is the question, would I spend money on my pet before I ----

Fed the kids

Looked after myself properly

Paid the mortgage

Paid for a holiday

Paid for the gambling habit

Bought a £2.5million house.

going to give more consistent answers (although considerably less useful ones) than the objective 'how much would I spend on the pet'

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Alasdair Hotston Moore — Sun, 16 Feb 2025 11:43:45 GMT

just took the survey. My age range isn't an option lol 50-60

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Arlo Guthrie — Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:09:05 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246555#246555"]Are there never ethical issues concerning how it is spent? Provided it was acquired legally …[/quote]

Malcolm seems to have left the room, hopefully temporarily, so can I throw this question to the floor. Do you think moral or ethical values should be applied to how money is spent?

We've lived (are living) through a period of excessive consumption, when we've been encouraged to make and spend as much money as possible, during which time the argument has always been that the money filters down from the super rich. Thatcher started it. Blair continued.

What we have seen now is that money most certainly does not filter down to any large degree.

I think the prevailing view probably has been that if someone makes their money legally, then who is anyone to question how they spend it.

But then again, these days people DO make ethical judgements about where they spend it.

They choose to spend it with less polluting companies, for example.

So why is it such a stretch to question the ethics or morality of spending ridiculous amounts of money on stuff.

£250 million pounds on a 40-bedroom house in London, for example.

I'm not suggesting everyone should live in a tent (or indeed that there is anything wrong in living in a £2M house, plenty of people do).

And of course it then beggars the question of 'who says how much is too much' - but that is the thing about morality (I think, but I am debating above my pay grade here, and probably just with myself!), it's personal and flexible and changes with the times.

And it doesnt preclude people buying big houses, it just makes them perhaps think about the sense of it, and whether there are better, more ethical ways of spending it.

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 13 Feb 2025 22:43:19 GMT

[quote userid="3607" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246553#246553"]If the money has been acquired legally, the question of how much of that money might be spent[/quote]

Malcolm Ness … Hi Malcolm, So would you say that the only criteria for judging anything to do with money as ethical or not is simply whether it was acquired legally or not?

Are there never ethical issues concerning how it is spent? Provided it was acquired legally …

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Clive Ansell — Thu, 13 Feb 2025 19:11:04 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246543#246543"]I honestly can't see there would be much I'd ever let anyone else do to my own animals, maybe eyes. Not a real believer in dog chemo. Wouldn't have spinal surgery.[/quote]

Orthopaedic, including spinal, and ophthalmic if the prognosis is good.

No to chemo. preds suck it and see +/- blue juice.

I would do do pretty much anything else myself.

[quote userid="3169" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246543#246543"]Wouldn't have spinal surgery.[/quote]

Why? I've had and seen most cases do very well. I've had spinal surgery, fantastic and 99.9% successful.

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Malcolm Ness — Thu, 13 Feb 2025 18:38:57 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246544#246544"]the max amount it is ethical to spend on a dog, which is any dog[/quote]

If the money has been acquired legally, the question of how much of that money might be spent on veterinary care of a pet is the business of nobody but the owner. What ethical, moral or legal justifications might be proposed to suggest otherwise?

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Clive Ansell — Thu, 13 Feb 2025 17:24:16 GMT

[quote userid="4181" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246549#246549"]Except that the likes of Petplan sell plenty of lifetime policies covering £10k/year every year of treatment.[/quote]

True enough, but insurance seems to getting increasingly expensive, and £10k/year isn't a massive amount anymore. I've seen referral cases exceed that many times.

A client commented recently that his dog's insurance costs 4-5 times that of his car.

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Rob Loxley — Thu, 13 Feb 2025 15:36:17 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246534#246534"]

Clive Ansell said:
We were talking about this at work recently, and one of the highest spending clients who has a >50Kg dog with allergic skin and ear disease, that gets regular flare ups, and has had demodectic mange, spent around £8500 in 2024. Only 18 months old, and will never be cured, but hopefully better mananged. Could easily be in excess of £100k in the dogs lifetime!

Wow.

[/quote]

Except that the likes of Petplan sell plenty of lifetime policies covering £10k/year every year of treatment.

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 13 Feb 2025 09:02:57 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246542#246542"]I saw it on Ticktok a couple of hours ago, so is very much live........[/quote]

Didn’t have you down as a tiktoker! But yes, I posted here, then an hour or two later had positive feedback from a couple of vets privately, so I thought I’d see how it went on tiktok.

[quote userid="3169" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246543#246543"]On their own dogs or on owned dogs?[/quote]

I was thinking about the max amount it is ethical to spend on a dog, which is any dog.

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 12 Feb 2025 23:37:43 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246525#246525"] think it would be very, very interesting if the survey produces results which show owners place a lower or higher value on their pet's life than vets do[/quote]

On their own dogs or on owned dogs?

The beauty of owning the business is that I can treat my own animal for virtually zero cost. I'd say it was rare that I couldn't find something I'm not legally allowed to sell that I could use up. I removed some bladder stones from my dog last year, dread to think what that would cost at another GP or even referral centre. I honestly can't see there would be much I'd ever let anyone else do to my own animals, maybe eyes. Not a real believer in dog chemo. Wouldn't have spinal surgery.

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 12 Feb 2025 23:31:00 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246540#246540"]This is not public yet,[/quote]

I saw it on Ticktok a couple of hours ago, so is very much live........

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 12 Feb 2025 20:14:58 GMT

OK, here we go, I've made a film to start the discussion. This is not public yet, private premier for VS members only at this stage, but if you think I havent made any howlers, then I'll publish imminently and see what it brings!

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Judith Joyce — Wed, 12 Feb 2025 15:19:56 GMT

And get a small dog

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 12 Feb 2025 10:14:06 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246532#246532"]We were talking about this at work recently, and one of the highest spending clients who has a >50Kg dog with allergic skin and ear disease, that gets regular flare ups, and has had demodectic mange, spent around £8500 in 2024. Only 18 months old, and will never be cured, but hopefully better mananged. Could easily be in excess of £100k in the dogs lifetime! [/quote]

Wow.

[quote userid="13891" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246533#246533"]Before the new skin drugs, the T cell suppression associated with the older skin drugs (including some quite expensive ones) would have shortened the dog's life because the demodicosis would be out of control, which would have been cheaper. [/quote]

I hadn't thought of that (strangely) ... that of course with the increased success of treatment, so the animal lives longer and needs more treatment.

I must say, I am not REMOTELY judgemental about other people's view on the value of a dog's life. It's a bit like our relationship with risk, very personal. But for me, if even if I won a billion in the lottery, there are no circumstances under which I could imagine spending that, either over the dog's lifetime or on an individual treatment.

Another thing struck me the other day ... was watching Paul Manktelow being interviewed about how to pick a puppy, and he quoted some figures for the estimated lifetime cost of a dog (depending on breed). I was thinking .... "Yes, if you're lucky it's that, but it is a lottery and if you pick the one that turns out to have skin problems, you're in for many multiples of that."

With the cost of treatments increasing, I sort of wonder whether, when talking of the lifetime costs of owning a dog, it should always be in the context of "x if nothing goes wrong, up to y if it does."

Might make people more likely to insure.

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Judith Joyce — Wed, 12 Feb 2025 09:55:40 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246531#246531"]10K per annum absolute max? 5K normal max. 3K not uncommon?[/quote]

That sounds about right, especially when you look at Clive's horror story.. Before the new skin drugs, the T cell suppression associated with the older skin drugs (including some quite expensive ones) would have shortened the dog's life because the demodicosis would be out of control, which would have been cheaper. Good luck with that one, Clive. My experience of those is still a shortened life because something goes out of control (either disease/quality of life or the owner's circumstances). Recent articles have had a focus on the mental health impacts on owners of living with a chronically itchy dog - no-one gets any sleep!). Might that get disguised as 'I can't afford the cost of ongoing treatment".

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Clive Ansell — Wed, 12 Feb 2025 09:10:13 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246531#246531"]Anyone got any idea of the approx annual worst case costs of skin/epilepsy/endocrine etc[/quote]

We were talking about this at work recently, and one of the highest spending clients who has a >50Kg dog with allergic skin and ear disease, that gets regular flare ups, and has had demodectic mange, spent around £8500 in 2024. Only 18 months old, and will never be cured, but hopefully better mananged. Could easily be in excess of £100k in the dogs lifetime!

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 12 Feb 2025 08:36:59 GMT

Thanks David Mills I agree, that would be interesting to know too … but … I was thinking of the survey as being more of a conversation starter / straw poll than a serious piece of research, and as such was thinking I have probably asked too many questions already (cant help myself!). I dunno. Two more questions…. Hmmm.

Anyone got any idea of the approx annual worst case costs of skin/epilepsy/endocrine etc. I suppose its how long a piece of string, but what would be the highest. I’m thinking drugs maybe £2K, annual tests / consults maybe £1k and then an allowance for occasional additional expense (brachy surgery). 10K per annum absolute max? 5K normal max. 3K not uncommon?

RE: Film Club: What is your dog worth?

David Mills — Tue, 11 Feb 2025 18:23:07 GMT

Interesting survey.

I wonder if answers would change according to financial circumstance.

1) How much would you spend on you current income?

2) How much would you spend if income wasn't a concern?

i.e. are restrictions on spending financial or some concept of how much is 'right' to spend on an animal; the latter would have an ethical/moral aspect.

That's before you get onto the difference between intensity or magnitude of treatment and cost - so whilst the cost may be acceptable the magnitude of the treatment may not be.

E.g. a dog with cancer X may be expected to respond to chemo Y but the commitment and side effects are such that the owner would prefer 6 months less and to feed the dog caviar.

[quote userid="13891" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246529#246529"]Think DJD not quite as expensive?[/quote]

Probably not if in later life - though for a 20kg dog on monoclonals and NSAIDs could easily be £200-300 a month.

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/vetsurgeon-film-club/31134/film-club-what-is-your-dog-worth/246524#246524"]What's the nightmare diagnosis for owners these days in the sense that you know it is a lifetime of regular blood tests and expensive drugs. [/quote]

Skin (esp starting early and affecting the ears)

Epislepsy

Endocrine - diabetes, Addisons

Frenchies. Any brachies actually.