Where are you on assisted dying?

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Gerry Henry — Sun, 26 Jan 2025 11:04:20 GMT

For anyone interested in this topic have a listen to this. It's a long listen but worth it. Assisted dying becomes eugenics in Canada.

MAID: Why the Government Wants You to Kill Yourself - Kelsi Sheren

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Gerry Henry — Sun, 05 Jan 2025 12:38:09 GMT

Only if we're allowed nominations :-)

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Richard Carter — Fri, 06 Dec 2024 21:23:09 GMT

So after some thinking..

I think a volunteer hospice on the lines of RNLI would be far better placed to help people on or approaching their deathbed than the NHS with the conflict of purpose and already stated opposition to assisted dying from the medical profession.. I think if we leave this to NHS and/ or a government organisation we will lose the humanity we have hopefully recovered for frightened people wanting a peaceful, controlled end without obstruction and red tape.

I could definitely volunteer as I’m sure many of the veterinary profession would.

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Fri, 06 Dec 2024 17:21:14 GMT

Definitely in favour. It’s that or a one way trip to Disneyland and I don’t think it should be just for wealthy people as currently happens. My only sorrow is that those without mental capacity may have to suffer as they cannot consent.

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Rob Loxley — Fri, 06 Dec 2024 08:37:22 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31082/where-are-you-on-assisted-dying/246176#246176"]

Lesley Strong said:
Vitamin P

Presumably a euphemism for something. Pento something?

[/quote]

Prednisolone, round here!

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 05 Dec 2024 17:49:35 GMT

[quote userid="2675" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31082/where-are-you-on-assisted-dying/246096#246096"]Think your letter to mp strays from the important point it’s about having a personal choice facing certain imminent death.[/quote]

Yeah - I agree! Should have included that.

[quote userid="2675" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31082/where-are-you-on-assisted-dying/246096#246096"]Also I’m surprised the ptsd effect on family watching the expected death that is being dragged out by medical intervention interfering with life for the living is not a bigger concern [/quote]

Now you mention it, I'm surprised that's not ever talked about.

[quote userid="14693" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31082/where-are-you-on-assisted-dying/246175#246175"]Vitamin P[/quote]

Presumably a euphemism for something. Pento something?

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Lesley Strong — Thu, 05 Dec 2024 17:43:38 GMT

100% in favour and so are most of the people I know not just vets

My life My choice . As Tim Walz said, to critics , about another health choice " Mind your own damn business"

When I retire in a few years there would be a temptation have a big bottle of Vitamin P on standbye just in case !!

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Richard Carter — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 20:19:18 GMT

Think your letter to mp strays from the important point it’s about having a personal choice facing certain imminent death. Please don’t mention pensioners- it’s a distraction.

Also I’m surprised the ptsd effect on family watching the expected death that is being dragged out by medical intervention interfering with life for the living is not a bigger concern

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 09:26:26 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31082/where-are-you-on-assisted-dying/246089#246089"]My grandma died a few months ago and spent a year in a care home with dementia. No idea who anyone was. Cruel to her and the family keeping her alive. Fighting with nurses, soiling herself. Horrible.[/quote]

Sorry to hear that Michael, that must have been horrid for you.

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 00:13:25 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31082/where-are-you-on-assisted-dying/246082#246082"]

I think there are probably LOTS of people who should but will not benefit from the first change in the law. But it's a first step, and if (as I am sure it will) it is found to have been a step in the right direction, the criteria can be expanded in the future (which is not quite 'slippery slope' as any widening could only be with the considered approval of our elected representatives).

[/quote]

Agree 100%. It is wrong that we cannot afford the same care to a human that we do to an animal. I see this as a vital 1st step.

My grandma died a few months ago and spent a year in a care home with dementia. No idea who anyone was. Cruel to her and the family keeping her alive. Fighting with nurses, soiling herself. Horrible.

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 21 Nov 2024 10:10:27 GMT

[quote userid="24356" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31082/where-are-you-on-assisted-dying/246081#246081"]The other issue I have with it- the reason why I'm on the fence- is that those with dementia, or semi-comatose, who are the people who I feel would benefit most from it, wouldn't be eligible due to inability to consent or inability to self-administer. [/quote]

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Elizabeth — Thu, 21 Nov 2024 09:58:42 GMT

The other issue I have with it- the reason why I'm on the fence- is that those with dementia, or semi-comatose, who are the people who I feel would benefit most from it, wouldn't be eligible due to inability to consent or inability to self-administer.

I am in the very privileged position of not having had to visit loved ones in care homes, and I do remember the horror of seeing an uncle unable to communicate, fed by tube for about a year. In his circumstance I would 100% think euthanasia would have been the right choice, but he wouldn't have been offered it as unable to self medicate.

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 21 Nov 2024 09:15:51 GMT

Incidentally, I urge anyone who feels strongly about this subject to email their MP (https://members.parliament.uk/FindYourMP). I sent the following - feel free to plagiarise any part of it if you happen to agree and it saves you some time.

I am writing to urge you to support the motion for assisted dying.

The idea that we should not have the choice over when and how we want to die is a dated one, tied to religion and a historical belief in the sanctity of life.

However, according to the latest research, the majority of people you represent no longer believe in a god, without which there can be no sanctity.

The idea that people should die in pain, as Wes Streeting suggests, until the government improves palliative care is, in my opinion, weak. Firstly, there are those who will die an awful death regardless of how good the palliative care. Secondly, how dare the government sentence people to a painful death in the hope that it will be able to improve the care it offers at some unknown time in the future.

Many people have voiced the concern that the bill will cause old people to feel pressured into ending their lives, in order not to spend too much of the inheritance.

Not spending too much inheritance on keeping me alive whilst I die a painful death is a perfectly valid reason for wanting to end one’s life. I am perfectly fit and well (and enjoying life), but I do not want anyone wasting money keeping me alive if I find myself in dreadful pain with months to live.

Lastly, there is the slippery slope argument, and ill-educated comparisons with Canada. We have a different system over here, where, unlike Canada, any changes to the law would have to be voted for by MPs. By definition, therefore, any widening of the criteria for assisted dying could only happen with the will of our elected representatives.

Above all, though, I am reminded of the words of a veterinary surgeon who once said: “Death is not a welfare issue. Life is”.

We should ALL be guided, above all, by welfare.

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 21 Nov 2024 08:56:09 GMT

[quote userid="8991" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31082/where-are-you-on-assisted-dying/246068#246068"]I know my mother, by no means an extremist, lifelong NHS nurse, has a drugs box at home that she fully intends to utilise when the time is right[/quote]

Yeah - have thought of going on the dark web and having some morphine delivered. I'd have a day or two feeling delicious, and then push the plunger a bit further than normal. However, I'm not sure I'll need to. Given the amount of fatty foods I've eaten, and the number of cigarettes I've smoked, I think I've probably got arteries like victorian drainpipes, and one day I'll do an Alex Salmond. That's my hope, anyway. Just fall over after a good lunch, and not get up again.

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Joyce Whitehead — Wed, 20 Nov 2024 15:42:55 GMT

Also very much for it. And judging by the number of clients who say “I wish we could do this for people” when we are putting animals to sleep I think a lot of the public are in favour too. My elderly mum went into a care home at 90, and survived (not lived) over 5 years with vascular dementia. She hated it when she was well enough to say so (although the care home was amazing) but the last 3 years were frankly hell. Bed bound, incontient, barely able to speak, not recognising us etc etc. I very much want to avoid this for ourselves.

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Richard Carter — Wed, 20 Nov 2024 12:34:09 GMT

Problem is the argument already been derailed from people who are dying imminently to elderly/ disabled that really are not in the frame but it’s been a successful tactic in the past to conflate the two separate issues

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

David Mills — Wed, 20 Nov 2024 11:50:08 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31082/where-are-you-on-assisted-dying/246065#246065"]If I turn into a dribbling wreck, the last thing I want is to saddle my wife with it. [/quote]

If?

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31082/where-are-you-on-assisted-dying/246065#246065"]Why ON EARTH would I want to spend money on that? Why do people seem to assume that the old will feel pressured into dying to save the inheritance? Have they considered that some of them, maybe most, would RATHER their children enjoy the loot, instead of spending all that money watching them decompose in a nursing home?![/quote]

Interesting economics around this.

Generally going through the boomer generation at the moment, with relatively high amounts of savings and whilst most do not have huge estates many are into the 100s of 1000s. If that is absorbed by a dysfunctional and monopolised care system, mainly run by private companies, where will the next generation get so much money to fund their own care? Many can't afford houses, deposits etc without boomer capital as it is. House prices regardless of right to not buy Angela aren't every going com down significantly (at all).

There is therefore a strong economic argument for this, and it will only increase. I think it is probably an untapped argument currently. As said, enjoy the money your parents have built up rather than worrying about care bills in the future.

As ever these debates are derailed by whataboutery and rare cases that people suddenly think is the norm. It isn't. Most people in care he a tedious, horrible existence which if you've ever visited is difficult (for me) to not be slightly repulsed by. It isn't for me, and it isn't for most people I suspect. I have never understood the length of life argument, which is a judeo-christian-islamic sanctity of life above all else argumentwhich is very diffcult to justify in the modern age where we no longer use leeches, believe in heaven, or expect faith miracles.

I know my mother, by no means an extremist, lifelong NHS nurse, has a drugs box at home that she fully intends to utilise when the time is right - she got the idea from Henry Marsh, the neurosurgeon.I suspect many healthcare workers - people who actually observe suffering day to day close up rather than the outraged left / religious - have similar.

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Clive Ansell — Wed, 20 Nov 2024 11:11:31 GMT

We've discussed all of this in detail within our family recently. I have an 85 year old mother with various health issues , and a relative with a terminal illness.

They have have made living wills, and have appointed lasting power of attorneys, and we are all aware of their wishes and opinions.

ReSPECT for patients and carers | Resuscitation Council UK

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 20 Nov 2024 09:52:53 GMT

[quote userid="24356" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31082/where-are-you-on-assisted-dying/246062#246062"]I've heard stories from Canada which are terrifying regarding how people are offered MAID when they go in for cancer treatment or depression. How long will the safeguards be true safeguards and not just tick-box exercises?[/quote]

Elizabeth My understanding is that the Canadian system is completely different, and their legislative framework means that it has been easier for the criteria to widen over there, compared to here where any change to the criteria would only be possible with the agreement of our elected representatives.

[quote userid="24356" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31082/where-are-you-on-assisted-dying/246062#246062"]I actually can't see how you can get round elderly people feeling pressure to do it, so as not to feel a burden to their caregivers, or worrying about spending money on care when it is coming out of their kids inheritance. [/quote]

I am VERY comfortable with both those ideas!

I don't worry about spending my children's inheritance on having a team of carers spoon-feeding me in my bedroom.

I simply do not want to do it.

In short, my daughter will have far more fun with the money than I will have spending it on overcooked boiled carrots and mashed swede in a nursing home.

One of my children's carers used to work in a nursing home. I asked her how many of the residents had a good quality of life. Ie enjoyed their time in the home. Her answer: "about 25%. The remainder were evenly divided between those who tried to hide the pills because they wanted to die, and the rest, who didn't know whether it was Monday or Friday".

Why ON EARTH would I want to spend money on that? Why do people seem to assume that the old will feel pressured into dying to save the inheritance? Have they considered that some of them, maybe most, would RATHER their children enjoy the loot, instead of spending all that money watching them decompose in a nursing home?!

Same goes for caregivers. Or unpaid caregivers, I should say. If I turn into a dribbling wreck, the last thing I want is to saddle my wife with it.

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Elizabeth — Wed, 20 Nov 2024 07:23:01 GMT

I'm on the fence.

I worry that the conditions put on it ( self-administered and mental capacity) may mean that a lot of suffering people at the end of their lives would be ineligible and would still get the long drawn out death.

I've heard stories from Canada which are terrifying regarding how people are offered MAID when they go in for cancer treatment or depression. How long will the safeguards be true safeguards and not just tick-box exercises?

I actually can't see how you can get round elderly people feeling pressure to do it, so as not to feel a burden to their caregivers, or worrying about spending money on care when it is coming out of their kids inheritance.

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Clive Ansell — Wed, 13 Nov 2024 14:53:13 GMT

[quote userid="6386" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31082/where-are-you-on-assisted-dying/246016#246016"]probably sounds mercenary, but it would save the NHS a fortune as well[/quote]

No, not at all, its a very valid point and needs discussion.

The NHS is in a mess, and there needs to be a frank, open and honest discussion about what it can and can't, and should and shouln't do, and by who and how it is going to be paid for. It seems politicans just don't have the wherewithal to do it.

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Kate Richardson — Wed, 13 Nov 2024 14:33:26 GMT

100% in favour as well.

Not my prime reason for being in favour and this probably sounds mercenary, but it would save the NHS a fortune as well

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Dinu Catilina — Wed, 13 Nov 2024 13:30:00 GMT

My body, my choice. So yes, in favour.

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Clive Ansell — Wed, 13 Nov 2024 13:29:15 GMT

I am in favour, yes 100%.

I have seen 2 family members and one close family friend die in the last 2 years, and all lived far too long in my opinion. They were being kept alive where there was no point or purpose to do so.

That said, their end of life care, and pain management were excellent within the NHS.

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31082/where-are-you-on-assisted-dying"]that even with the best palliative care, there are those who will die a dreadful, painful death. [/quote]

That's one thing that scares the hell out of me; a slow, long, lingering, painful, end of life and death, and not being able to do anything about it.

RE: Where are you on assisted dying?

Richard Carter — Wed, 13 Nov 2024 11:49:13 GMT

Absolutely.

And I would take the process out of the hands of medics after a terminal diagnosis has been confirmed. They proven themselves appalling at knowing when to accept there no more magic pills