how many 15 minute consult slots in a 10 hour shift - just interested

RE: how many 15 minute consult slots in a 10 hour shift - just interested

giles broadhead — Sun, 20 Oct 2024 09:17:53 GMT

We never do more than 16. 2 hours in the morning, 2 in the afternoon or evening. Rest of the day for ops, admin or an early finish. This “consulting day” ethos of 15 min breaks and an hour for lunch is barmy and presumably why people are flocking out of the profession……

RE: how many 15 minute consult slots in a 10 hour shift - just interested

Rob Loxley — Wed, 16 Oct 2024 10:41:43 GMT

"Once I've earned the £277 for the day can I go home please very much sir? "

If you want to earn £277 for a day's work you're a very cheap locum!

RE: how many 15 minute consult slots in a 10 hour shift - just interested

Clive Ansell — Wed, 16 Oct 2024 09:26:05 GMT

[quote userid="7002" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31057/how-many-15-minute-consult-slots-in-a-10-hour-shift---just-interested/245701#245701"]I think I'm just concerned about the admin the consults will generate. 6 in a row this evening [/quote]

Can you not delegate admin tasks and creating estimates to nursing or reception staff?

Most referrals now are done online, and usually just involve attaching clinical notes, and any lab work or images.

Where I am working the Solensia injection would be given within an RVN appointment, if the patient had other issues brought up, they would need to book a vet appointment another time.

I tend to tailor what I do and don't do to the time I am given and what is available. I cut my teeth in busy practices working to 5, 7.5 and 10 minutes appointments, so usually fine 15 minutes easy going. It is true though, that things take longer now; writing more detailed notes, more to discuss, authorising prescriptions, endless pointless click boxes on PMS computers etc

In the 2 practices I mention above, staff are quite god at booking alternate quick and easy, and then more complex appointments, and double appointments for known difficult cases or clients, PTS's etc.

RE: how many 15 minute consult slots in a 10 hour shift - just interested

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 15 Oct 2024 21:44:58 GMT

Other than a behaviour referral (I think they are a waste of time and money - don't think they have ever fixed a single animal for me) I'd happily rattle through that in an hour.

RE: how many 15 minute consult slots in a 10 hour shift - just interested

Sara Ramsey — Tue, 15 Oct 2024 19:55:53 GMT

I think I'm just concerned about the admin the consults will generate. 6 in a row this evening

-one QOL discussion, resulting in estimates, cremation discussion and organising a visit.

-one chemotherapy consult, generating an online consultation referral

-one consult for behaviour issues...resulting in a referral to APBT behaviourist

-one.solensia...turned into discussion on UL nasal discharge and estimate for full work up

-one parasite treatment check...turned into booster with KC (in challenging patient)

Oh..and an abscess that was doing ok...phew.

Thanks for replies, I'll just have to crack on !

RE: how many 15 minute consult slots in a 10 hour shift - just interested

Clive Ansell — Tue, 15 Oct 2024 15:03:11 GMT

[quote userid="4181" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31057/how-many-15-minute-consult-slots-in-a-10-hour-shift---just-interested/245693#245693"]

A bit of maths is the answer to 'how many consults'; however your workings assume all your vet income derives just from the consult fee. I assume your ATV is more than your consult fee?

A common rule of thumb is your vets should turnover 5x salary, so your 50k vet bringing in 250k, or £1388 daily for your 180 working days. If their ATV is, say £70, then that's 20 consults.
Obviously there's ops and inpatient care income, and no-charge consults and nurse income etc., but 34 consults sounds an awful lot to me

[/quote]

When doing such calculations, are they averaged between all vets or based on each vet separately?

For example; one of my regular locums is at a branch surgery of a local larger group. Much of the work I do there is routine low ticket item stuff such as vaccinations, health club FOC checks, AG and nails, POC, routine neuters and dental work. Non routine procedures and investigations, with their higher price tag, get directed to the bigger branches. This would make it much more difficult to reach the stated x5 salary threshold.

As far as I know the numerous FOC appointments are not assiged a value for auditing purposes, so it would be possible to work a whole consult block and take zero.

Also, when doing the low ticket stuff such as free health club checks, one might discover, advise and book in mass removals or dental work that someone else does, therefore generating revenue that doesn't necessarily show against their name for the bean counters to see.

RE: how many 15 minute consult slots in a 10 hour shift - just interested

Clive Ansell — Tue, 15 Oct 2024 13:59:29 GMT

[quote userid="4181" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31057/how-many-15-minute-consult-slots-in-a-10-hour-shift---just-interested/245693#245693"]

=180 working days. Assume experienced and want to earn £50,000/year. Assume consult only, no ops etc. Allow you to take 20% of fees.

=£277/day earnings

[/quote]

Once I've earned the £277 for the day can I go home please very much sir?

RE: how many 15 minute consult slots in a 10 hour shift - just interested

Clive Ansell — Tue, 15 Oct 2024 13:57:54 GMT

[quote userid="8958" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31057/how-many-15-minute-consult-slots-in-a-10-hour-shift---just-interested/245690#245690"]In both cases, just about time to do repeat meds and calls[/quote]

Practice 1

0900 - 1100 (8)

1100 - 1115 (Break)

1115 - 1300 (7)

1400 -1600 (8)

1600 -1615 (Break)

1615 - 1800 (7)

9 hour day 0900 - 1800. 1 hour lunch and 2 x 15 minute breaks. 30 consults. Almost always fully booked, and often overbooked with routine stuff. Often no free slots to see folk who call on the day with sick patients or to do repeat prescriptions or report lab results, so have to bank on no shows and a string of quick appointments to make the time - if not it doesn't get done.

Second vet when they can get one does ops in the morning and consults 1400 - 1800.

Hectic and chaotic, but a great team, and the big bonus is the on-time 1800 finish. Sometimes have to push back hard against management to get breaks though.

Practice 2

0900 - 1030 (6)

1030 -1045 (break)

1045 - 1300 (ops or extend consults (9) if no ops or not enough nursing staff for ops)

1300 - 1600 (lunch and catch up, report results, finish ops etc)

1600 - 1900 (12)

10 hour day. 18 consults + ops (or 27 consults if no ops), more relaxed and more time for admin tasks etc. slots are kept free until the day for sick animals etc. the 0900 and 0915 slots are kept free too, for urgent calls first thing and any transfers from Vets-Now, and are almost always filled - if not get to work on repeat prescriptions etc. 4 slots are kept free during eveing appointments for booking sick animals on the day only, again almost always filled. The last appointment at 1845 is kept free for emergencies, running late, arranging OOH transfers etc.

Much more relaxed and organised environment, and on the whole works very well, although the 1900 finish is a PITA. Again should be a 2 vet practice but almost always only 1.

RE: how many 15 minute consult slots in a 10 hour shift - just interested

Rob Loxley — Tue, 15 Oct 2024 07:24:20 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31057/how-many-15-minute-consult-slots-in-a-10-hour-shift---just-interested/245689#245689"]

I suppose the flip side - what do you want to earn? Assuming a 10h day, 4 day week? Assume 28d holiday.

=180 working days. Assume experienced and want to earn £50,000/year. Assume consult only, no ops etc. Allow you to take 20% of fees.

=£277/day earnings

If you DID do 34 consults @ £40 + VAT (£48) then you can earn that.

[/quote]

A bit of maths is the answer to 'how many consults'; however your workings assume all your vet income derives just from the consult fee. I assume your ATV is more than your consult fee?

RE: how many 15 minute consult slots in a 10 hour shift - just interested

Sara Ramsey — Tue, 15 Oct 2024 05:33:40 GMT

I agree that 10 minutes is not appropriate anymore..clients expect more and deserve more, especially when consult fees are £60. I say this as some one who has done 10 minutes consults, open surgeries and £8 consultation fees many years ago. I think my record was 40 in a day ..but standard of medicine and service reflected that.

I think we do talk about far far more, in corporate there is a new initiative daily it seems (that's a different discussion). I just can't do it in every consult..it takes time and I sound like a robot....but now I feel if I don't mention something..then that client has missed out compared to the one before.

-puppy socialisation classes

-dental treatment...don't forget to discuss insurance caveats/estimates

-personalised anti-parasitic requirements at booster vac..then authorise them for a year...this takes over a minute on the PMS alone.

-subsidised wellness screening nurse clinics

-marketing consent

-updating GDPR (not a consult job but more "clicks")

- so many clicks on the PMS which interfere with "flow"

I am heading back into more consults after 4-5 years of a different management/mentoring /hospital role and reckon there will be between 19 and 23.

I'll just have to see how it goes but I wondered what the normal was in 2024.

RE: how many 15 minute consult slots in a 10 hour shift - just interested

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 15 Oct 2024 01:04:54 GMT

[quote userid="8958" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31057/how-many-15-minute-consult-slots-in-a-10-hour-shift---just-interested/245690#245690"]10 minutes is dead now (sorry Michael) I know of no practice doing these now. New grads struggle, I struggle now as clients expect more. Swabbing ears for cytology, taking a blood samples for example. These add value for both practice and client. 10 minutes it’s too rushed, you can do it but no time for anything extra.[/quote]

I agree that I can't think of anything more dull than a day in a consulting room, but I regularly do 8 or 10 consults in a 2-hour slot with time for a chat and clearing up and I run to time. We do bloods, FNA's and cytology too. I was brought up with open surgeries where you needed to clear the room to get on with ops/out on visits.

I appreciate that some clients with 1,000,000 questions, a PTS etc may take some time, but how long does it take to really boost a 3-year-old dog? Feel a belly and take a temp and history of a dog with V&D, book a dog in with a tooth root abscess in for a dental? With 10 min appointments, I usually run ahead and am waiting for people. I don't think I practice particularly bad medicine, either. Bloods take no time in a well set up room.

One thing I'm fairly confident of - my clients wouldn't tolerate a 50% increase in fees moving from 10-15 min appointments. I wouldn't tolerate a 50% increase in my time talking to the public. I genuinely wonder what that time is used for? Unnecessarily long notes? Thinking time?

RE: how many 15 minute consult slots in a 10 hour shift - just interested

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 14 Oct 2024 22:58:02 GMT

Locum practice 1

15 minutes

09:00 to 10:30 (6)

11:00 to 13:00 (8)

14:00 to 15:30 (6)

16:00 to 18:00 (8)

28 a day and 3 above what is considered safe by the BMA but we’re not medics

Locum practice 2

15 minutes

09:00 to 12:00 with a 15 minute catch up (11)

14:00 to 17:45 with a 15 minute catch up (14)

In both cases, just about time to do repeat meds and calls

10 minutes is dead now (sorry Michael) I know of no practice doing these now. New grads struggle, I struggle now as clients expect more. Swabbing ears for cytology, taking a blood samples for example. These add value for both practice and client. 10 minutes it’s too rushed, you can do it but no time for anything extra.

Neil

RE: how many 15 minute consult slots in a 10 hour shift - just interested

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 14 Oct 2024 21:42:17 GMT

Or do 34x10 min consults? 5h40mins consulting. 10h day. you can have an hour for dinner, 2x30 min breaks. Still have 2h for reporting results, phone calls and 20 mins to discuss your weekend and use the toilet.

I suppose the flip side - what do you want to earn? Assuming a 10h day, 4 day week? Assume 28d holiday.

=180 working days. Assume experienced and want to earn £50,000/year. Assume consult only, no ops etc. Allow you to take 20% of fees.

=£277/day earnings

If you DID do 34 consults @ £40 + VAT (£48) then you can earn that.

If you only want to do 25 consults per day then you either need to charge £55.50 + VAT (£66.60) or reduce your earnings to £36,000 and do the 25 consults at the same rate.

(do a couple of £5k TPLOs and you can have the rest of the week off)