Anyone else feeling windy about firing rockets into Russia?

RE: Anyone else feeling windy about firing rockets into Russia?

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 23 Sep 2024 13:23:24 GMT

[quote userid="11493" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31030/anyone-else-feeling-windy-about-firing-rockets-into-russia/245506#245506"]This is not a dig, Arlo, as it is found in many spheres and I can include myself in one of them. But what you're saying reflects my expectations of your leanings.[/quote]

Hi Francisco - I'm not sure my leanings have much to do with things. I guess I would call myself more of a centrist, although a right leaning one.

In fact, I'd love to discard notions of left or right and just have a more evidence based political system, based on performance.

But that's another thing, I am genuinely curious whether you think (in this context) appeasement is associated with the left, and fighting with the right.

RE: Anyone else feeling windy about firing rockets into Russia?

Dinu Catilina — Mon, 23 Sep 2024 08:58:53 GMT

[quote userid="11493" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31030/anyone-else-feeling-windy-about-firing-rockets-into-russia/245518#245518"]An excellent military episode or the death of 3 children? [/quote]

Very said indeed but close to 14000 children have been killed in Gaza up to now and it's not stopping. Maybe this conversation should take precedence.

RE: Anyone else feeling windy about firing rockets into Russia?

Clive Ansell — Mon, 23 Sep 2024 06:11:35 GMT

[quote userid="11493" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31030/anyone-else-feeling-windy-about-firing-rockets-into-russia/245518#245518"]I'm ferociously against weaponry and a coward when it comes to territorial conflict. [/quote]

I am too, but it would be impossible and extremely naive to think we could ever reach a situation where no country has or chooses to use any weapons.

We cannot even trust out own politicians; they are incapable of telling the truth over trivial matters such as who paid for clothing or whether or not they held an illegal party during a national lockdown, not to mention the non existent WMD in Iraq.. Would we therefore trust other world politicians such as Putin, Trump, or Kim Jong Un if they stated they no longer had weapons ? I think not.

RE: Anyone else feeling windy about firing rockets into Russia?

Francisco Gomez — Sun, 22 Sep 2024 11:32:16 GMT

[quote userid="9239" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31030/anyone-else-feeling-windy-about-firing-rockets-into-russia/245514#245514"] If we give in now, all the people who died before will roll in their graves". I had to stop, this is such an unfair comment coming from someone who is not herself on the frontline[/quote]

I don't blame you. She wanted to speak and I am perhaps complicit in being the platform.

I'm ferociously against weaponry and a coward when it comes to territorial conflict.

However, my point is highlighting how there's a majority consensus in the country of 'how' we should handle someone's elses war when, as you well say, neither of us are at the fronline.

Whatever your leanings, she has more right than us to decide and she's not even there (tho her family and home country is). 3 years ago she was a hero. Now she's to be forgotten. But tangentially, nothing has changed for us who know about it through dubiously 'independent' media channels.

Should we also do something about the super-discriminate attack with the pagers in Lebanon? An excellent military episode or the death of 3 children?

RE: Anyone else feeling windy about firing rockets into Russia?

David Mills — Sat, 21 Sep 2024 21:43:32 GMT

[quote userid="11493" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31030/anyone-else-feeling-windy-about-firing-rockets-into-russia/245506#245506"]Quite impressive how people with one or another political leanings feels about this or any other conflict.[/quote]

Not like the left to be judgemental and presumptuous

Belongs alongside Yvette Cooper's comments about "everyone involved in the riots is a criminal"

RE: Anyone else feeling windy about firing rockets into Russia?

Dinu Catilina — Sat, 21 Sep 2024 20:52:20 GMT

Francisco, I really wanted to give it a try and listen, but your episode starts with : If we give in now, all the people who died before will roll in their graves". I had to stop, this is such an unfair comment coming from someone who is not herself on the frontline. The current death toll in Ukraine is close to 1000000 people if you take in to account the civilian and military casualties on both sides. Are the people in their graves happy that they are joined by more dead people? Dead people have no feelings.

Like I said before, freedom is great but only if you are alive to enjoy it.

RE: Anyone else feeling windy about firing rockets into Russia?

Francisco Gomez — Fri, 20 Sep 2024 18:09:41 GMT

Quite impressive how people with one or another political leanings feels about this or any other conflict.

This is not a dig, Arlo, as it is found in many spheres and I can include myself in one of them. But what you're saying reflects my expectations of your leanings.

Sometime ago, I recorded this: https://lnns.co/aoPcVy0IR34

Incredible how much things have evolved since.

RE: Anyone else feeling windy about firing rockets into Russia?

Richard Carter — Thu, 19 Sep 2024 21:56:19 GMT

I had to look this up- never heard of it but pretty gobsmacked by the fact there a contingent of Russian troops on the eastern border of Ukraine and that this separatist action was done over 30 years ago! Oh well the blueprint of tried and tested ways of winning..

RE: Anyone else feeling windy about firing rockets into Russia?

Dinu Catilina — Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:13:25 GMT

[quote userid="2675" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31030/anyone-else-feeling-windy-about-firing-rockets-into-russia/245499#245499"]Both sides withdraw or does that just leave the ‘freedom fighters’ free reign [/quote]

Well, see Transnistria.

RE: Anyone else feeling windy about firing rockets into Russia?

Richard Carter — Wed, 18 Sep 2024 08:52:44 GMT

The thing is the Donbas conflict is already much older than the invasion- remember the Malaysian airline shot down by Ukrainian freedom fighters supported by Russia? Perhaps a demilitarised zone? Both sides withdraw or does that just leave the ‘freedom fighters’ free reign

RE: Anyone else feeling windy about firing rockets into Russia?

David Mills — Tue, 17 Sep 2024 10:08:02 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31030/anyone-else-feeling-windy-about-firing-rockets-into-russia/245478#245478"]

Presumably he is weighing up the risk of going into a conventional war with NATO, which he would lose, versus the likelihood of liberal, woke, western populations being OK with sending their children to die in a conventional war in Ukraine.

I suspect he thinks we dont have the bottle for it, and he may well be right.

So he'll keep upping the ante.

Like Hitler.

So either we have to appease, let him keep his ill gotten gains and just hope he doesnt decide to go and help himself to Sweden next.

Or we have to let Ukraine fire our rockets and be prepared for the consequences.

[/quote]

I think the issue for the West is multi-faceted.

The current economic climate will become unsustainable, and the Ukraine war continues to be a big factor therein. More widely there is a right shift in many democracies (UK excepted) which mirrors previous periods of economic hardship. These vary from interventional to non-interventional protectionist parties.

In the UK, there are huge costs on the horizon that will necessitate more borrowing or higher taxes. The infected blood, post office, maybe Grenfell, issues are going to cost 10s if not 100s of billions - and we are still paying for Covid through increased borrowing. Add into that high mortgage rates, high rents, higher food costs and the outlook is grim - there is normally a breaking point for any voter/population patience and tolerance. Breaking the deadlock in Ukraine may become both politically and financially expedient. A NATO campaign in Russia/Ukraine you would expect to be relatively rapid and decisive against the essentially amateur Russian army.

It will be interesting to see which way the US swings - Trump unusually for a Republican is somewhat pro-Russian, whereas the Democrats have been the opposite. So we may be in a position where a Democrat pres id behaving more hawkish towards Russia than a Republican one. As always, it will ultimately depend on what the US do or even sanction as to what will happen.

With any conflict between large nations there is always brinksmanship but I can't see a definitive solution other than escalation. The alternative is a long drawn out stalemate, or ongoing regional instability if Russia are given the lands they have taken.

RE: Anyone else feeling windy about firing rockets into Russia?

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 16 Sep 2024 13:36:15 GMT

[quote userid="9239" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31030/anyone-else-feeling-windy-about-firing-rockets-into-russia/245480#245480"]And the western population will say nothing about where their troops die as long as there is no conscription.[/quote]

Yeah, but that is what I meant - a war in which we need to send more troops than we have (which is about half a dozen, these days).

[quote userid="9239" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31030/anyone-else-feeling-windy-about-firing-rockets-into-russia/245480#245480"]My worry is what will happen to Ukraine, the longer the war lasts the mor destroyed it will be.[/quote]

I agree.

I do not see Putin withdrawing.

I also do not see how it can make sense to allow him to keep one inch of Ukrainian land.

So there is no easy solution which would give both sides a way to claim victory.

Which makes me think the only answer is to beat him, one way or another - and to hurry up and get the job done.

But you said earlier, that plays into his 'West against Russia' propaganda.

RE: Anyone else feeling windy about firing rockets into Russia?

Dinu Catilina — Mon, 16 Sep 2024 13:03:46 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31030/anyone-else-feeling-windy-about-firing-rockets-into-russia/245478#245478"]Dinu Catilina Media reports (which I understand may be inaccurate) are that Russia has taken a huge amount of losses too, and is running out of properly trained men. [/quote]

This is very true but Ukraine is running out of men of all levels of training to a point where loosing more men will have a huge effect on their economy.

There are a lot more men in Russia than in Ukraine.

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31030/anyone-else-feeling-windy-about-firing-rockets-into-russia/245478#245478"]Presumably he is weighing up the risk of going into a conventional war with NATO, which he would lose, versus the likelihood of liberal, woke, western populations being OK with sending their children to die in a conventional war in Ukraine. [/quote]

Possibly but I don't see that happening even if NATO troops go to Ukraine. My worry is what will happen to Ukraine, the longer the war lasts the mor destroyed it will be. No way around it. Freedom is good but only if you're alive to enjoy it. And the western population will say nothing about where their troops die as long as there is no conscription. Why does it matter if they die in Ukraine or in Afganistan or Irak?

[quote userid="2100" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31030/anyone-else-feeling-windy-about-firing-rockets-into-russia/245478#245478"]just hope he doesnt decide to go and help himself to Sweden next. [/quote]

He can't. He can't even take Ukraine, no chance to take anything else.

I guess we will find out in 10 years time.

I am worried that we are being fed all sorts of crap to make all the support easier to swallow. How is Putin's cancer going? I thought he was meant to die half a year ago?

RE: Anyone else feeling windy about firing rockets into Russia?

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 16 Sep 2024 12:54:00 GMT

[quote userid="9239" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31030/anyone-else-feeling-windy-about-firing-rockets-into-russia/245467#245467"]Ukraine is running out of men[/quote]

Dinu Catilina Media reports (which I understand may be inaccurate) are that Russia has taken a huge amount of losses too, and is running out of properly trained men.

[quote userid="8991" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31030/anyone-else-feeling-windy-about-firing-rockets-into-russia/245470#245470"]I suspect morale is somewhat low given they are fighting people they are related to.[/quote]

My understanding is that Russians have been brainwashed into thinking Ukrainians are the enemy, and this is not a really a factor (that was the opinion of a Ukranian I spoke to about it, anyway!)

[quote userid="8991" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/31030/anyone-else-feeling-windy-about-firing-rockets-into-russia/245470#245470"]Putin won't do shit apart from a few cyber attacks or some nonsense. Fire the rockets.[/quote]

I suspect he thinks we dont have the bottle for it, and he may well be right.

So he'll keep upping the ante.

Like Hitler.

So either we have to appease, let him keep his ill gotten gains and just hope he doesnt decide to go and help himself to Sweden next.

Or we have to let Ukraine fire our rockets and be prepared for the consequences.

RE: Anyone else feeling windy about firing rockets into Russia?

Sam — Mon, 16 Sep 2024 09:18:59 GMT

Did you ever see the Deagel population forecast for 2025?

They cited a war between Russia and the West. Available in 2020 and since taken down.

Extremely scary!

In my opinion it is important not to escalate this war.

RE: Anyone else feeling windy about firing rockets into Russia?

David Mills — Sat, 14 Sep 2024 17:01:10 GMT

No.

Russia is hoping on the long game as currently being played out. I suspect morale is somewhat low given they are fighting people they are related to.

Either Ukraine give in and give Russia the lands. Or they escalate. Russia are using Iran weapons for god's sakes they are going to obliterate Ukraine. So something needs to change. Putin won't do shit apart from a few cyber attacks or some nonsense. Fire the rockets.

RE: Anyone else feeling windy about firing rockets into Russia?

Dinu Catilina — Sat, 14 Sep 2024 09:19:17 GMT

Yep. The rockets will not end the war unless somehow Putin is assassinated but if it failed for Hitler it may fail here as well. Just like Putin strengthen the Ukrainian resolve it is possible that this attacks will support Putin's narrative that the west hates the Russian people.

Ukraine is running out of men and there is only one logical conclusion, foreign soldiers (maybe NATO) will be used more in this conflict.

We should ask why the escalation? Is it maybe because the russians are winning the war even though we are continuously being told they're weak and incompetent?