Cert AVP

Re: Cert AVP

Charlotte Marshall — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 20:40:20 GMT

I had support through Middlesex for my A and B modules which did provide journal access but it was late coming through. Several of us opted to join the RCVS Trust Library, that gives you access to lots of online journals and if you can't get full text the library can get it for you for a small charge. I found it real value for money and joined again this year (although I was expecting to be doing my feline modules by now, I wish Edinburgh would get organised!)

Re: Cert AVP

sarah mason — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 17:15:53 GMT

Just to update folk on the CertAVP. I have been battling with module B for a 9 months now. Finally hope to have it passed-fingers crossed but it is not easy. I had to re-submit 2 of my case reports. I think my downfall was 2 fold.

1. You really need access to online journals, lots of my feedback was negative regarding discussion and referencing-they dont seem to be happy with just textbooks and in practice/JSAP

2. I think online support would be really helpful, I have done A and B without it due to costs but in hindsight I think I would have had a better experience with it

I have spoken to someone who is a traditional cert advisor, who thinks the new cert is a robust qualification so that is good because it seems that some people still think the old one is superior. Having now seen the standard they expect for case reports I think it really does require a high standard of work and knowledge

Re: Cert AVP

katja wagner — Sun, 11 Oct 2009 14:23:46 GMT

thanks hanna!!

I am interested in the feline certificate and would do this mainly for myself. I do a lot of reading and research on more complex cases anyway and thought it would help me to gain further knowledge .as my boss would support me financially although he wont pay the full course it seemed a good way forwards to me. i just would hate to waist a lot of energy,time and money so i still hope for mor people to come forwards with their experiences.

thanks to all who answered so far

katja

Re: Cert AVP

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sun, 11 Oct 2009 13:50:27 GMT

Katja

I've done 2 of the Improve modular courses-have passed 1 exam, and will sit another in March hopefully will get 2 GPCerts and 20 credits towards the Cert AVP from it I can definitely rate them As for reasons for doing-just to satisfy myself that this 29 year qualified "old lady " isn't coasting towards retirement !!!!

Wynne

Re: Cert AVP

sarah mason — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 16:39:34 GMT

It depends on why you want the certificate and what you want to gain from it.

As far as I can see the improve course is a lot of days of cpd, where one person gives lectures/tutorials and after completing all the cpds you take an exam. I'm sure it is very useful and sounds good to me, but I thought it seemed expensive.

The cert AVP is a different way of learning because you have to log cases and write case reports which includes relevant literature searches which involves a lot more self learning, and then take the exam.

I chose the second way because I thought I would gain more from self learning and learning from my own cases that from just doing more cpd which seemed to me would be kind of like taking finals again.

If you want it for a specific reason ie to get a residency or a job in a referral centre then i would ask some referal centres/universities which they would prefer for that career path

Re: Cert AVP

katja wagner — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 22:13:12 GMT

thanks for the anwers,so far it seems that nobody here has done one of the certificate courses of improve international.

the esavs and the esvps are two different european organisations,

cpd improve international seems to cooperate with esvps ,for me it looks like they have come to some kind of agreement so you can attend the specific courses from improve international and then sit the exam to gain the certificate by esvps.

what attracted me was the fact that its possible to do this within a year and still be able to work fulltime. I would just have loved to know if this whole programm offers good value for the price or if this is just a clever way to gain a certificate quickly if one is willens to pay a lot of money.

I am afraid i cant real ask improve international if they just created the esvps themself to milk poor idiots like me!

anymore informations very welcomed!!

katja

Re: Cert AVP

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:33:10 GMT

That's the same as Improve I like it, but I always prefered exams to writing course work

Wynne

Re: Cert AVP

Mike Martin — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 12:19:08 GMT

Has anyone looked at the European Post graduate school option?

http://www.esavs-certificate.org/

Re: Cert AVP

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:34:40 GMT

I've done an Improve course-it was then examined by Uni West of England I can definitely recomend it

Wynne

Re: Cert AVP

Charlotte Marshall — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:40:15 GMT

I have completed the A module and B0 and B1. I registered for all of them at the same time with Middlesex. I started Jan 2008 and handed all three in together April 2009. I actually found it quite a lot of work to do it all at once and would tend to advise you to do the A module first then move on. The style of writing is very different to what we have done at university. Some of my group seemed to get into that style of writing easily but I found it more difficult. I think some people like me will find this particular style of learning does not suit them really.

I want to do the feline medicine modules at Edinburgh but they are not taking enrollment yet which is very frustrating as I am loosing the drive I had intially and getting out of the habit of studying again. I am keeping up with journals to try and keep up to date with any new developments but it means that it is going to take longer than I had hoped to get my full certificate.

Re: Cert AVP

katja wagner — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:05:04 GMT

Dear all,

have done some research about the new certificates and although i still found it all a bit confusing i think i have finally figured out how it works.one can enrole with the rvc and has to pass A and B syballus which i personally find rather boring and then can chose specific C topics . for me this looks like a rather long,complicated way so i was wondering if anybody has experience with certificate modules offered by improve international cpd who offer various topics ,the courses take about a year and delegates can then sit an exam at the ESVPS to gain the ceritficate .

I would be most gratefull about any information ,experience people have made.

thanks a lot!!

katja

Re: Cert AVP

Jill Macdonald — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 13:51:23 GMT

Hi Hanna, really sorry not to reply; thought I was 'watching' the discussion but obviously not!

There is a chance that we will extend to SA, I certainly hope so as i am a smallie myself.. But yes, you are right, you can split up modules, so it doesn't actually matter where you do your A ..

Let me know if you want to know anything more, you are welcome to e-mail me direct. (jillos@liv.ac.uk)

Re: Cert AVP

Hanna Bennett — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:34:23 GMT

Hi Jill,

the Liverpool approach to the A module does look good, but i'm a small animal practitioner and your CertAVP is very Equine orientated. Know i can separate the modules, but have you any intention of expanding to the small animal world?

Re: Cert AVP

Jill Macdonald — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:27:22 GMT

Hi all, really interesting to read your posts on this subject, well for me anyway, as I am one of the co-ordinators for the A module at Liverpool.

Please take a look at my post 'Advance to Liverpool' in 'News From the Schools' regarding the PKS module, as I explain the novel way in which we are teaching and assessing this. I can completely understand why people may be put off by the prospect of writing ten essays (although as someone says this can still be useful and demand some research and organisiation of thought on the topics) which is why we went for a completely different approach. It is 100% online, (there are 3 optional workshops), with ongoing assessment throughout the module using a variety of techniques. Candidates collaborate for most of the tasks, so it is like working in a group rather than alone. So far we have had really, really good feedback.

If anyone wants to know more about it, then please don't hesitate to give me a shout.

Jill

Re: Cert AVP

ms1083 — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:39:11 GMT

I graduated in 2007 and have enrolled with Vetlearning (midlesex university) for their Cert AVP course. currently I am working on modules A & B and plan to stay with them for the C modules to gain cert Vet GP.

A & B modules are compulsory for any subject and modules C are subject specific, I plan to get a very broad mix first as am in general mixed practice but have full intentions of adding extra subjects at a later date.

When coosing a course ensure you get one with support. They vary a lot. Vetlearning work by a session introducing the work required for each module then a number of "learning set meetings" where the group meet to discuss concerns/questions etc about the tasks with a member of staff from vet learning. They also have an online system where you submit your work to your group so you receive comments/questions about it. The A & B modules (compulsory ones for all subjects) involve reflective works on what you have learnt (areas of learning) and how you proove your position in relation to the RCVS guide to conduct. The areas of learning are not strictly clinical areas (these come later in B & C modules), an example could be "Client communication". You certainly get plenty of support both from vetlearning and from fellow members of your group. We also have occasional telephone conference mettings.

For syllabus/requirements/universities etc visit the RCVS page on modular courses, it explains what is required. All of the universities seem to cover the topics in a very different way but I have explained the vetlearning way above.

Our course leader is a member of vetsurgeon.org - I am sure he will comment soon.

Hope this helps.

Re: Cert AVP

Rob Reid — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 17:36:57 GMT

I am an employee so have very little dealing with the COSHH, H&S, finance side so feel this will be fairly beneficial to me, though I can certainly see how this would put some people off. The sections on communication skills and ethics are certainly relevent to us all - communication skills are something we aren't taught in great detail as students and even though I have been in practice for 7 years now, I would still say that there is a lot for me still to learn.

The other issue for me is what set of modules I take and where. I have already done an Improve GP course in surgery so am leaning toward a Medicine certificate, but am unsure whether to do the RVC's modules in both feline and canine medicine or Edinburgh's in purely canine. I have heard a lot of good reports re. the RVC's online courses but has anyone got any experience of online CPD from Edinburgh?

Re: Cert AVP

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 16:19:24 GMT

I'm registered with Middlesex Uni for A and a B modules. Writing about Areas of Learning for A and Case Reports for B Quite a lot of work, including literatue searches for B. You also need to be computer literate-I'm finding that challenging.

I am also registered with Uni W of E and Improve for another B and a C module A mixture of lectures, an exam , and case reports. I have passed the exam, but will have to resubmit a case report-so yes, you can fail

Wynne

Re: Cert AVP

sarah mason — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 16:04:16 GMT

I graduated in 2007. And have worked as an employee in small animal practice since then. finished the PDP in spring 2008. I presume you can fail module B if your reports are not good enough-I will be submitting at the end of September. I passed module A first time.

The essays are not as dry as they sound for module A. I found it really useful in terms of thinking about the way I communicate with clients, and informative in terms of welfare and ethics. It certainly made me much more aware of our responsibilities under the guide to professional conduct. To be honest, health and safety and data processing are not the most exciting things in the world but I still found working towards those essays useful and really 1000 words is not hard.

I think module A is useful cpd for any vet-whether continuing to the full cert or not. These "soft" skills are so important in our job and it is easy to lose sight when clinical work takes over, also they are things which are not well taught in veterinary schools.

I think the downside of this cert is that too many people like Clive will be put off by "boring" module A, I can certainly think of more exciting things to be doing but I would certainly have chosen to work on some of those essays over seeing certain clients or emptying anal glands on obese dogs!

Re: Cert AVP

Clive Ansell — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:32:51 GMT

I would like to enrol and work towards a certificate in anaesthesia, but if I have to do module A and write essays on H&S, COSHH regulations and practice finance I shall duck out I think!

Re: Cert AVP

Mike Martin — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:20:14 GMT

Thanks Sarah,

B sounds OK then. And presumably one cannot fail that module.

But what do you feel about A? (Are you an employee? When did you graduate?)

As an 'old-Cert' adviser, I'm interested in what's involved in the new. The RCVS have not directly given me any info on the new-Certs, so currently I've volunteered-out of the being an adviser.

Re: Cert AVP

sarah mason — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:52:17 GMT

Module A covers ethics, communication, welfare, health and safety, data processing, financial considerations in practice. I had to do 10 thousand word essays covering speccific topics in those areas.

Module B-you have a to do 5 case reports 1 each on medicine, surgery, anasesthesia, therapeutics (4 drugs) and one on radiography. And a refective essay. all are 1000 words

Re: Cert AVP

Mike Martin — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:15:02 GMT

What is involved in modules A & B?

Re: Cert AVP

sarah mason — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 21:28:05 GMT

I registered in August last year and submitted module A at the end of March-so about 7 months. So far has taken me 9 months to do module B-but work got longer in that time, and to be fair, I completed a few of the essays for module A in some time off I had when a holiday fell through.......I think I lost a bit of motivation this time, which is where the online support would be helpful. A friend of mine is doing module A through Liverpool and they give you a topic every fortnight......

Re: Cert AVP

Rob Reid — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:48:20 GMT

Hi Sarah, thanks for your reply - much appreciated.

That's quite a good idea re. mix and matching suppliers - think will register with Edinburgh first as planned for the A module then go from there. I think if you register for the Edinburgh one then part of the fee covers access to an online support network and also access online to the library. Just out of interest, how long did it take you to complete the A module?

With regards to the other modules, I am also debating whether to do the clin path one but think will probabaly do either the 3 canine medicine modules (which would mean doing them all through Edinburgh) or the 3 in general medicine (which I think is only the RVC at moment.) I am in general practice so either way will need a degree of support from specialist online I am guessing!!!

Re: Cert AVP

sarah mason — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:24:07 GMT

Hi rob

I enrolled initially for A and B modules with RCV-at the time only a few choices of supplier, I have completed A and almost B now, without the online support. I would have preferred support but cost is an issue!

I was happy with the assessment for module A-on time, got feedback etc. Not so happy when they emailed me after it to say they would no longer accept 2000 word essays as they couldnt fairly compare them with the 1000 word essays we were told to write-so have to assume mine were being compared with some that had a lot more information included.........

I would probably register for online support for the clinical modules if I was in practice but Im off to do in internship so should get the support I need that way. I have eventually decided to go for all 3 medicine modules, after much debating about clin path and imaging mixtures.......

I found module A useful, makes you think more about day to day choices, so far module B has been a bit vague-but good to re-inforce knowledge and forces you to think about clinical choices.

You can mix and match suppliers for modules so I would reg for A and maybe B first and see if you like the teaching, you can always do the C modules elsewhere.

Sarah