Is there a future in outsourced farm animal emergency cover?

RE: Is there a future in outsourced farm animal emergency cover?

cairncross — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 06:41:01 GMT

i agree with your comment below that working and being disturbed the night before has an impact on the quality and safety the next day , i often think we are lucky that the client doesn't notice this having seen us at 3 am and then again at 7pm the next day . i also agree with your comment here that ooh care is expensive. i have been involved in a number of studies at QUB into the this , expense and local provision and can see the preliminary results. i know that only around 20 percent of my client base can afford ooh care at a 24 h referral centre {they are not 24h }. i am obliged to provide care for all my clients not just the wealthy 20 percent.

[quote userid="2457" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30754/is-there-a-future-in-outsourced-farm-animal-emergency-cover/242239#242239"]The problem Michael is that once you've been woken up, had an argument with the worried owner (they don't like to take no for an answer), repeatedly all night, you're not able to work safely the next day![/quote]

RE: Is there a future in outsourced farm animal emergency cover?

David Mills — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 00:14:24 GMT

I don't see this being a going concern.

As I understand it OOH SA clinics run on a high charge-high salary model whereby the client is charged 5-10x the amount of a daytime consult and around 50-70% are insured. That means the needy and worried are readily seen for things that a "traditional" OOH service would leave to the next day.

In my experience farmers do not call the vet unless absolutely necessary. In my time in mixed, this was the rule - not because ot was massively more expensive OOH but because they knew (mostly) the difference between emergency and not. The only pointless calls I attended were when the farmers were on holiday - a calving cow that hadn't even broke amniotic fluid and another that was a simple calving without ropes (same farm, father looking after whilst son away).

The reliance on non-emergency consults are the bedrock of OOH services, and as such I would think it difficult to replicate in the LA sector. Plus, farmers hate change in vets mostly.

RE: Is there a future in outsourced farm animal emergency cover?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 28 Aug 2023 18:15:18 GMT

The problem Michael is that once you've been woken up, had an argument with the worried owner (they don't like to take no for an answer), repeatedly all night, you're not able to work safely the next day!

We've had this conversation before. As I've said, I think you've got a very different client base in the countryside.

RE: Is there a future in outsourced farm animal emergency cover?

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 28 Aug 2023 16:16:54 GMT

[quote userid="8663" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30754/is-there-a-future-in-outsourced-farm-animal-emergency-cover"]With IVC now moving that way in farm animal practice, where will that lead?[/quote]

God knows. The only way I could see it paying was if the vets were very busy and a week on/week off sounds ok, but not if up most of the night. They would have to pay a premium salary and there are so few experienced farm vets I don't know how they would plan on staffing it. Farmers are price sensitive, there is no way they would stand inflated OOH charges, unless the practice has an absolute monopoly in the area. Flip this around - what about the young vets in practice not getting this experience? That will affect their development and confidence.

Whilst I believe we all have a duty to do OOH work, I don't make money from it.

[quote userid="2457" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30754/is-there-a-future-in-outsourced-farm-animal-emergency-cover/242235#242235"]

This morning so far we have received 3 reports from our local OOH for pets seen by them overnight.

cat bite abscess, lanced and medical treatment
simple conjunctivitis
puppy that was drooling excessively, given prevomax

[/quote]

I'd offer to see all of those over the day or evening, but if they rang in the middle of the night - I'm not getting out of bed to see any of those. It would be exceptionally rare to be called out of hours by a farmer without a genuine emergency (or just seeking advice). You wouldn't have the 'worried dog mum' income, nor insurance footing the bill.

RE: Is there a future in outsourced farm animal emergency cover?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 28 Aug 2023 10:32:54 GMT

[quote userid="19228" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30754/is-there-a-future-in-outsourced-farm-animal-emergency-cover/242222#242222"]Most nights on call we receive several non client calls[/quote]

This morning so far we have received 3 reports from our local OOH for pets seen by them overnight.

cat bite abscess, lanced and medical treatment
simple conjunctivitis
puppy that was drooling excessively, given prevomax

All were obviously given the option to see their own vet today, but chose to be seen.

Whilst I am as concerned as you about the increasing cost of OOH care, and it becoming unaffordable, neither is it possible for vets to see their own OOH when clients expect to be seen for issues like these.

I used to enjoy doing OOH until clients got too 'entitled'. (And I'm sure this is also a geographical thing - I suspect rural areas perhaps don't have the same client base who expect services to be there 24hrs a day for them.) If I still had to do OOH, I think I would have walked away from the profession by now. So although outsourced OOH care is expensive, I don't doubt that without it there would be significant difficulty in sourcing daytime care as there just wouldn't be enough vets out there!

So although I can understand the concerns about the large animal sector going the same way, I also sympathise with those vets getting phone calls about their horse's rash at 2am!

RE: Is there a future in outsourced farm animal emergency cover?

cairncross — Fri, 25 Aug 2023 07:57:42 GMT

Most nights on call we receive several non client calls as they have been quoted 1 to 4 thousand for care in the system of the practise to which they belong, this anecdotal experience is increasing in both frequency of contact and disparity between costs quoted and funds available . Surveys from dogs trust and the preliminary results from one i have seen by QUB suggest that only a minority of our population can afford this care possibly 20% or less. It should be possible to quantify which proportion of the pet population we have advantaged by making higher more expensive standards of care available and which proportion we have removed care from. Costs of care in the past were recorded , disposable income figures are available numbers of pets to divide this over are available .

i am uncertain if it has been good for staff/working conditions attrition rates has have increased significantly more regular hours and more time off may be available but something else is having a greater impact on retention to cancel out any benefit.

.Unable to recruit i abandoned farm animal about 5 years ago so am guilty as charged . Locally others are now following suit . Here a significant proportion of the farm vet time was spent TB testing with practises in winter and spring having maybe 3 or 4 to 1 ratio of vets testing during day v carrying out farm calls . Am now hearing from neighbouring farms who are trying to book TB tests later in winter NOV December that their practise is not making bookings. Our own cattle are TB tested by a practise which has informed us that they are looking to offload their farm work and may not be testing in the spring. i obviously can manage our own farm vet needs but cannot test our own cattle , the rumour is that our 3 nearest mixed practises are stopping farm work .

Below me at night i can see the lights of the shipyard where the Titanic was built, i can see the population of 700k most of whom cant afford vet care once those lights come on . we are not only rearranging the deck chairs we are trying to treat MR Schrodinger's cat in the dark.