Under care review is anyone ready?

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

David Shepherd — Fri, 08 Sep 2023 18:01:23 GMT

What a patronising article! Shows real condescension and contempt for the practising profession from RCVS

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

Ben Walker — Fri, 08 Sep 2023 12:10:21 GMT

[quote userid="19228" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30741/under-care-review-is-anyone-ready/242311#242311"]we cant dispense any antiparasitic regardless of category without exam[/quote]

Hi James. Sorry, but this isn’t the case. The guidance for the retail of veterinary medicines is the relevant authority here. POM-Vs require a prescription from a vet following a clinical assessment of the animal. POM-VPS does not require a clinical assessment.

The RCVS guidance is about how physical exams relate to the clinical assessment, but are not relevant to POM-VPS products.

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

Clive Ansell — Fri, 08 Sep 2023 07:45:42 GMT

Bit of a reprieve. until 12th January.

Council supports practices in VMR compliance by delaying implementation of anti-parasitics guidance - Professionals (rcvs.org.uk)

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

Richard Carter — Tue, 05 Sep 2023 13:57:42 GMT

So regardless of where this originated, can anyone think of any approach other than the new current guidelines that will:

encourage a good client/ vet relationship

encourage the use of effective anti parasite treatment (a primary health requirement according to 5 freedoms)

reduce stress for vet professionals already understaffed

add unnecessary bureaucracy that cannot effectively contribute to any advancement of animal health

whittle away at the status of trained professionals trained in animal health

This profession is so heading for the exit and about to become so completely irrelevant to the public as a bastion of veterinary expertise but also impartial professional status and standing in the community.

Can you report the RCVS for bringing the profession into disrepute?

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

cairncross — Tue, 05 Sep 2023 12:51:11 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30741/under-care-review-is-anyone-ready/242290#242290"]

alison silvester said:
The webinar suggests..."if your practice was on the banks of a river and there was a flood and the bridges got washed away and the client couldn't get to you" Genuinely exceptional

Even then, regardless of floods and being bridgeless, if the client could get to you to collect medications they could probably bring their pet to be examined too? no?

[/quote]

from the examle it would seem that if the client has some remotely plausible reason for being unable to transport the animal ?

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

cairncross — Tue, 05 Sep 2023 12:47:45 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30741/under-care-review-is-anyone-ready/242293#242293"]

alison silvester said:
I thought if you had a catapult? Guess they could catapult the pet over and it could be catapulted back with its meds?

that sounds a bit far fetched

[/quote]

not really anymore far fetched than expecting a client to be able or willing to afford a home visit for flea treatment or even a consult for 5 animals For many clients this cost would be completely impossible .

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

cairncross — Tue, 05 Sep 2023 12:38:44 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30741/under-care-review-is-anyone-ready/242307#242307"]Do we want POM-V flea and wormers? Alternative is to make everything POM-VPS and do as we like.[/quote]

we cant dispense any antiparasitic regardless of category without exam

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

Luke Bam — Tue, 05 Sep 2023 08:51:25 GMT

Remember medication can be prescribed during a consult without actually being dispensed. So even if the client doesn’t want any POM-v parasiticide, a record can be made that for the next 12 months that this can be dispensed for them if they change their mind

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

cairncross — Tue, 05 Sep 2023 07:52:35 GMT

We have already had this situation but our client Mr Noah , fully aware of the importance of the new regulation simply constructed a large boat and brought his pets across two by two, quite simple just needs a little imagination

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 20:34:38 GMT

Do we want POM-V flea and wormers? Alternative is to make everything POM-VPS and do as we like. I've seen far more issues from NSAIDs, but a physical exam not always needed there.

Maybe I'm in the minority - but if they can bring the cats for a booster and decline f&w Tx, then they can bring them back a month later if that turns around and bites them on the arse. Or stick out some Frontline or Advantage and see.

We will see things where willing or stock some VPS flea and wormer for awkward clients.

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

Kate Richardson — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 20:28:01 GMT

Well that's just not workable or practical or in the animals best interest in many cases. Does owner getting bitten by cat attempting to get into the basket again and ending up in hospital with sepsis count as exceptional? Bit extreme, but not impossible.

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

Ben Walker — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 20:08:18 GMT

The period of time is defined, Kate. The wording in 9(a) of the guidance on prescribing POM-Vs says:

”A physical examination is required at the time of prescription in all but exceptional circumstances where a veterinary surgeon prescribes antibiotics, antifungals, antiparasitics or antivirals for an individual animal or group of animals that are not production animals, farmed aquatic animals or game”.

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

Kate Richardson — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 19:51:52 GMT

I don't think I would be.

"The act of prescribing these drugs (antibioitcs, anti parasitics) must occur contemporaneously with a physical exam or on the basis of lab results"

Contemporaneous- existing at or occurring in the same period of time

Define period of time. Surely this will be variable depending on what the medication is for.

IE antibiotics given 6 months ago for an infected wound, O requests same again 4 months later- not acceptable.

Cats been seen a month ago for vaccines- dispensing flea treatment a month later = acceptable

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

Beats — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 19:16:47 GMT

[quote userid="2457" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30741/under-care-review-is-anyone-ready/242298#242298"]but I don't know how they make it more 'sensible' without adding loopholes that we all know will just be exploited.[/quote]

must be prescribed by a vet from a physical premises within 3miles of the address of the pet in question who routinely examines pets in that area? rationale being they are aware of local parasite risks.and can make judgements on prescribing to their local "herd" taking into account local factors?

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 16:30:52 GMT

[quote userid="6386" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30741/under-care-review-is-anyone-ready/242297#242297"]If I was in that situation I would prescribe flea treatment for all the cats as long as weights had been recorded.[/quote]

In which case you'd be breaking the rules. It may be the most sensible option, but not the 'legal' one.

Of course you could prescribe the cat you've seen a lot of flea treatment..... including just in case it gains/loses weight.

The difficulty is that i do think the 'see an animal before prescribing' rule is a good one - it prevents POMS being dispensed by a 'vet' online - but I don't know how they make it more 'sensible' without adding loopholes that we all know will just be exploited.

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

Kate Richardson — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 12:53:39 GMT

If I was in that situation I would prescribe flea treatment for all the cats as long as weights had been recorded.

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

alison silvester — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 10:23:07 GMT

Very true but if you saw all 5 last month for vaccines and they declined parasite treatment and then they brought one of the cats in with fleas this month you would now need to get the other 4 back before prescribing flea treatment for the in contact animals? Or send them to the pet shop.

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

Clive Ansell — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 10:13:58 GMT

[quote userid="2675" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30741/under-care-review-is-anyone-ready/242292#242292"]Or in the real world 5 adult cats that hate the boxes and travelling with a concerned caring responsible owner who is not an idiot [/quote]

They still need to be seen to prescribe POM-V's, even it's just once a year so a prescription could be issued for a year.

Home visit if all else fails.

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

Clive Ansell — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 10:10:31 GMT

[quote userid="5326" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30741/under-care-review-is-anyone-ready/242291#242291"]I thought if you had a catapult? Guess they could catapult the pet over and it could be catapulted back with its meds? [/quote]

that sounds a bit far fetched

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

Richard Carter — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 09:14:27 GMT

Or in the real world 5 adult cats that hate the boxes and travelling with a concerned caring responsible owner who is not an idiot

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

alison silvester — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 09:05:29 GMT

I thought if you had a catapult? Guess they could catapult the pet over and it could be catapulted back with its meds?

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

Clive Ansell — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 09:00:27 GMT

[quote userid="5326" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30741/under-care-review-is-anyone-ready/242288#242288"]The webinar suggests..."if your practice was on the banks of a river and there was a flood and the bridges got washed away and the client couldn't get to you" Genuinely exceptional[/quote]

Even then, regardless of floods and being bridgeless, if the client could get to you to collect medications they could probably bring their pet to be examined too? no?

Unless, of course, they swam across a river in full flow.

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

alison silvester — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 08:50:10 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30741/under-care-review-is-anyone-ready/242174#242174"]What would be an exceptional circumstance?[/quote]

The webinar suggests..."if your practice was on the banks of a river and there was a flood and the bridges got washed away and the client couldn't get to you" Genuinely exceptional

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

Alistair Graham-Evans — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 23:51:23 GMT

Yes - the script manager and follow up features make life so easy!

RE: Under care review is anyone ready?

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 15:01:42 GMT

[quote userid="4181" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30741/under-care-review-is-anyone-ready/242262#242262"]The problem is that if you don't have this set up[/quote]

Hasn't his been in the pipeline for months?