Who is going to pay all the extra vets salaries?

RE: Who is going to pay all the extra vets salaries ?

Clive Ansell — Sun, 23 Jul 2023 19:27:23 GMT

[quote userid="16672" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30717/who-is-going-to-pay-all-the-extra-vets-salaries/241969#241969"]unless thngs have changed drastically in the last few months, isn't there still a waitlist for most practices to get appointments? Meaning there are many clients out there who do have the money to spend and are looking for care for their pets who are currently waiting to be seen. Surely they will be the ones paying the salaries of extra vets? Supply and demand?[/quote]

Where I have just finished working, wait times for routine appointments are about a month, and for routine surgeries 6 to 8 weeks. Diaries are solidly booked day after day. A few free appointments are kept for sick animals on the day, but these often get booked with nail clips and vaccinations becaue of orders from on high. Once the diary is full, sick animals are directed elsewhere, or ofetn to the OOH provider at 6pm, but they have similar problems of course.

[quote userid="16672" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30717/who-is-going-to-pay-all-the-extra-vets-salaries/241969#241969"]Supply and demand?[/quote]

The demand is clearly there, but the supply isn't. There are simply not enough vets to staff the clinics full time. What was a busy group of 11 clinics is now down to 5, some days only 3 or 4, occasionally just one. There are only 3 employed permanent vets, and no clinical lead, senior vet, or clinical director. Other veterinary staff are all locums. Of the 3 permanent's, one is leaving soon, and anotehr is close to retirement, which will leave just 1.

RE: Who is going to pay all the extra vets salaries ?

Clive Ansell — Sun, 23 Jul 2023 19:16:22 GMT

[quote userid="9239" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30717/who-is-going-to-pay-all-the-extra-vets-salaries/241970#241970"]The next step is to move accounting abroad, probably in India.[/quote]

Yep, not long before a client calling OOH is redirected to a laptop in Delhi!

RE: Who is going to pay all the extra vets salaries ?

Clive Ansell — Sun, 23 Jul 2023 19:14:51 GMT

[quote userid="9239" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30717/who-is-going-to-pay-all-the-extra-vets-salaries/241970#241970"]Reduce reception staff in practices and then open a national call centre to redirect clients to local practices like it's already done in private human medicine.[/quote]

That's already happening.

We had an email come through from our OOH provider last week; client telephoned OOH and call was taken by a centralised call centre, where they were redirected to the local OOH clinic to book an urgent appointment asap.

Case was a dog that had eaten cat food, no abnormal clinical signs. The eagle eyed RVN on duty recognised it as a non emergency, and telephoned the client to advise them that they do not need to be seen as an emergency OOH.

Absolute sh1t show.

RE: Who is going to pay all the extra vets salaries ?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 22 Jul 2023 11:58:35 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30717/who-is-going-to-pay-all-the-extra-vets-salaries/241966#241966"] injection of Metacam or Synulox for a cat £30 each, 10ml Metacam £33, a day (0900-1900) on IVFT £500[/quote]

The words "rip" and "off" spring to mind.

I sincerely hope that corporate group fails disastrously.

[quote userid="9239" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30717/who-is-going-to-pay-all-the-extra-vets-salaries/241970#241970"]This is the corporate way.[/quote]

In a nutshell.

RE: Who is going to pay all the extra vets salaries ?

Dinu Catilina — Sat, 22 Jul 2023 08:28:33 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30717/who-is-going-to-pay-all-the-extra-vets-salaries/241966#241966"]They are continually telling vets and RVN's that they need to improve/increase productivity, despite being fully booked almost all of the time already.[/quote]

I worked once in a practice like this and I do not understand how they were not profitable. 10 min consults, fully booked every day with occasional double booked appointments. V4P.

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30717/who-is-going-to-pay-all-the-extra-vets-salaries/241966#241966"]Nurses and laystaff have had an overtime ban imposed, despite being short staffed anyway. They are told if they work additional hours they have to take the time back when they can. Being chronically short staffed, they don't get it unless they fight for it. (I'm not an accountant, but is it that salaries are a fixed cost, and overtime an additional or variable cost, and they want to streamline the books?)[/quote]

The fear that staff is lazy in the day and stays longer for extra pay.

[quote userid="16672" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30717/who-is-going-to-pay-all-the-extra-vets-salaries/241969#241969"]To go back to the initial question - unless thngs have changed drastically in the last few months, isn't there still a waitlist for most practices to get appointments? Meaning there are many clients out there who do have the money to spend and are looking for care for their pets who are currently waiting to be seen. Surely they will be the ones paying the salaries of extra vets? Supply and demand?[/quote]

Not anymore I'm afraid. We used to have a long waiting list until early this year to register clients and for the past 3 months the list got shorter and shorter. There aren't more vets in the area so the only explanation is clients looking for vet advice less than before and less new pets bought. Our breeder clients report serious difficulties in selling their puppies in all breeds. Times have changes and will continue to change.

[quote userid="5012" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30717/who-is-going-to-pay-all-the-extra-vets-salaries/241966#241966"]Reception and laystaff have just undergone a fairly brutal and inhumane process to make make 3 staff members redundant, in a so called restructuring and streamlining process. [/quote]

I'm surprised anyone is surprised about this. This is the corporate way. Reduce reception staff in practices and then open a national call centre to redirect clients to local practices like it's already done in private human medicine. The next step is to move accounting abroad, probably in India. And when online consults are full on then good luck monitoring who's doing what.

RE: Who is going to pay all the extra vets salaries ?

Martin Hamilton — Sat, 22 Jul 2023 03:27:40 GMT

The situation you described sounds awful Clive. I do not wish those working conditions on anyone!

To go back to the initial question - unless thngs have changed drastically in the last few months, isn't there still a waitlist for most practices to get appointments? Meaning there are many clients out there who do have the money to spend and are looking for care for their pets who are currently waiting to be seen. Surely they will be the ones paying the salaries of extra vets? Supply and demand?

We face a similar problem here in Canada - shortage of vets, largely brought on my mass retirement during COVID and a shortage of vet schools. GP waiting time is 6 weeks or more for routine appointments, with many clinics not taking on new patients. We (a dentistry only practice) are fully booked 6 months out, as are the other 6 dental practices in my geographic region (population of ~8 million people). Given the demand, it seems there are many clients out there that are happy to pay the wages of new grads.

But as Clive said, the extra graduates are akin to adding more water to a leaky bucket. I doubt it will make much difference.

RE: Who is going to pay all the extra vets salaries ?

Alistair Graham-Evans — Sat, 22 Jul 2023 02:39:58 GMT

Blimey

That sounds unsustainable and a business model that will fail.

I feel sorry for any vet director or local manager who has to work with the staff.

RE: Who is going to pay all the extra vets salaries ?

janine redman — Fri, 21 Jul 2023 21:49:18 GMT

How depressing to hear .

RE: Who is going to pay all the extra vets salaries ?

Clive Ansell — Fri, 21 Jul 2023 19:56:00 GMT

[quote userid="13683" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30717/who-is-going-to-pay-all-the-extra-vets-salaries/241957#241957"]Each practice will have to decide which model they want to restructure on and if they want reduce profit or workload?[/quote]

A corporate group I've recently been working for want to do both, they want to maximise profits and increase workloads as much as possible.

They are continually telling vets and RVN's that they need to improve/increase productivity, despite being fully booked almost all of the time already.
Nurses and laystaff have had an overtime ban imposed, despite being short staffed anyway. They are told if they work additional hours they have to take the time back when they can. Being chronically short staffed, they don't get it unless they fight for it. (I'm not an accountant, but is it that salaries are a fixed cost, and overtime an additional or variable cost, and they want to streamline the books?)
Reception and laystaff have just undergone a fairly brutal and inhumane process to make make 3 staff members redundant, in a so called restructuring and streamlining process. This is despite being short staffed anyway, and at a time of the year when many are taking annual leave, leaving clinics understaffed. This has resulted in not being able to fully book appointments, and on occasions having to cancel booked routine surgical procedures.
Prices are going up for clients on an almost weekly basis. Consultation £60, second and subsequent consultations £59, injection of Metacam or Synulox for a cat £30 each, 10ml Metacam £33, a day (0900-1900) on IVFT £500

RE: Who is going to pay all the extra vets salaries ?

cairncross — Fri, 21 Jul 2023 06:17:54 GMT

Agree increase numbers reduce wages makes the holes in the basket bigger

RE: Who is going to pay all the extra vets salaries ?

Lindsey Edwards — Thu, 20 Jul 2023 23:50:11 GMT

In current climate as far as I see it, you can scale to charging similar/less for more volume, or more for less cases...not sustainable for clients to pay ever increasing rates for rising pet population and falling disposable income, let alone OOH fee schedules! Each practice will have to decide which model they want to restructure on and if they want reduce profit or workload?

RE: Who is going to pay all the extra vets salaries ?

Clive Ansell — Thu, 20 Jul 2023 19:12:11 GMT

[quote userid="19228" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30717/who-is-going-to-pay-all-the-extra-vets-salaries"]We see lots of plans to increase vet numbers , new vet schools larger cohorts and now plans to change the education system to turn out more.[/quote]

The issue isn't the number being pumped through vet schools, that is more that it has ever been already, it is those that leave and don't stay within the profession. A little bit like trying to fill a bucket with water, but it just runs out through the holes in the bottom that nobody can mend.

I would guess the corporate solution would be to train or import many more vets, flood the market place so there are more vets than jobs. Then they can drive down salaries, and conditions to reduce their wage bill. I'm just cynical I guess though.

Ultimately, salaries and shareholder payouts can only be paid for by fee paying clients.

Is it sustainable, and can we continue to provide veterinary care to all in society? I very much doubt it.